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Calling a religous person delusional for wanting not to be gay is a bit of a low blow. We're talking faith and values here, not little green men in the medicine cabinet. Let's be respectful.
Actually, believing that someone can be turned "ungay" has absolutely nothing to do with faith or values. Name one religious texts that even talks about converting homosexuals. All these people can do is accept that they are gay & try to resolve their feelings the best they can. If they choose to be celibate & want support in doing so, they can find that support. If they choose to live a heterosexual lifestyle despite being gay, they can find support while going through that as well.
Calling a religous person delusional for wanting not to be gay is a bit of a low blow. We're talking faith and values here, not little green men in the medicine cabinet. Let's be respectful.
I'm not calling them delusional for WANTING to be not gay. That doesn't change the fact that under our current understanding of science, backed by all available research, that goal is not possible to accomplish.
For a therapist to directly lie to a patient and claim that this goal IS possible is a tremendous violation of ethics. He is contributing to harm being done to his patient and charging to do so.
Maybe in the future we'll discover that sexuality IS more fluid. But we have to deal with what we know RIGHT NOW, and we know right now that these therapies do not work and have great potential for harm.
I can guarantee you if I were to go to a therapist and ask to be made straight, no therapist would just suck it up and 'go along for the ride' on that goal. I can also guarantee you that if gay parents were taking their straight children in for this 'straight conversion' therapy, the religious right would be frothing at the mouth over it. The reverse situation is not different.
And we're back full circle to the fact that they won't be whole unless they can do exactly what you say is impossible (based on scientific studies). Like a cat chasing it's tale I'm afraid...
I said nothing of the sort. What I cannot do, what no therapist can do, is provide a treatment that does not exist. The one in question does not work, does not do what it is claimed to do. I am not sure why that is difficult to understand. I did not say someone would be miserable for their entire life if they don't identify as gay despite experiencing same-sex attraction.
It's the same with anything that is reality: I cannot take away that someone experienced sexual abuse, I cannot change someone's genetic make-up, I cannot make someone stop having a painful thought or feeling. What I can do is help them cope with it, based on what we know right now.
Last edited by JustJulia; 10-04-2012 at 12:35 PM..
Actually, believing that someone can be turned "ungay" has absolutely nothing to do with faith or values. Name one religious texts that even talks about converting homosexuals. All these people can do is accept that they are gay & try to resolve their feelings the best they can. If they choose to be celibate & want support in doing so, they can find that support. If they choose to live a heterosexual lifestyle despite being gay, they can find support while going through that as well.
*nods* I'm asexual, but that doesn't mean I'm incapable of the physical act of sex. I could choose to have sex for any number of reasons, and asexuals often do because we live in a sexual world.
So I could live a sexual lifestyle, but I would still be asexual and my lack of sexual desire would still exist. I might well need help dealing with the disconnect...but I'm still walking out a therapist's office as an asexual.
I can guarantee you if I were to go to a therapist and ask to be made straight, no therapist would just suck it up and 'go along for the ride' on that goal. I can also guarantee you that if gay parents were taking their straight children in for this 'straight conversion' therapy, the religious right would be frothing at the mouth over it. The reverse situation is not different.
This is such a great point, but I can't rep you anymore.
What is painfully obvious is that there is a *need* for an acceptable therapy for these people. The mainstream stuff is not what they want for themselves. It doesn't jive with their beliefs and they do not want to be talked into feeling better about being gay.
Why? Why is there a *need* for an acceptable therapy?
(I'll answer my own question.) Because the most conservative members of the church have decided something is wrong with them because they are gay. Because the church will not let them live as God made them. Because they are not welcomed into church to sit and worship and sing hymns because everyone and his brother in that church is telling them they aren't normal and they need to be "fixed".
I look forward to the day people realize that God is not the one telling people they need to get themselves "un-Gayed". God loves us all just as we are because we are His children. The people telling Gays they're broken (and so need this therapy) are the people who have decided that only they are right, everyone else is wrong and if you're going to sit in my church you better not be a man who loves a man.
Just so spring can see that I appreciate how difficult & complex this issue can be:
Perhaps for someone they feel their only option is to live a lifestyle opposite of their sexual orientation, because they are incapable of reconciling their beliefs/circumstances with their sexuality... this person can seek a therapist to help them cope with their reality, but this person cannot seek someone to magically turn them "ungay" as that is impossible. Someone who lies & tells them they can be turned doesn't help them, either, as that will only lead to false hope followed by crippling disappointment & shame.
Actually, believing that someone can be turned "ungay" has absolutely nothing to do with faith or values. Name one religious texts that even talks about converting homosexuals. All these people can do is accept that they are gay & try to resolve their feelings the best they can. If they choose to be celibate & want support in doing so, they can find that support. If they choose to live a heterosexual lifestyle despite being gay, they can find support while going through that as well.
Absolutely some people believe that homosexuality is a sin and it stands to reason that converting is their only hope of being right with God and going to heaven. It doesn't matter if you or I believe the same thing - they have a right and the freedom to worship as they see fit.
For these folks - resolving, accepting, living their lives happily in spite of being gay is not really an option.
Absolutely some people believe that homosexuality is a sin and it stands to reason that converting is their only hope of being right with God and going to heaven. It doesn't matter if you or I believe the same thing - they have a right and the freedom to worship as they see fit.
For these folks - resolving, accepting, living their lives happily in spite of being gay is not really an option.
And the correct course of action in your mind is to alter the medical field to provide for a treatement that is basically made up of magic, has no chance of working. Really? Because to label something "belief" and it must be treated so gently. The real onus is on that "faith" and the idiots within it to take better care of their flock.
Absolutely some people believe that homosexuality is a sin and it stands to reason that converting is their only hope of being right with God and going to heaven. It doesn't matter if you or I believe the same thing - they have a right and the freedom to worship as they see fit.
For these folks - resolving, accepting, living their lives happily in spite of being gay is not really an option.
Yes, there are people who believe that homosexual BEHAVIOR is a sin -- & let's just say it is. A homosexual man who marries & only ever sleeps with one woman is still a homosexual. Do you understand that is not being turned "ungay"?
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