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I love being a teacher, but I don't like people who believe that because they are taxpayers they have some sort of power over me.
I know that you are a taxpayer, but guess what? So am I. I guess that makes us even.
I don't know what whims you refer to, but what I really want is to do my job, without interference, in the manner that I was trained to do (I have eight years of post-secondary education) while making decisions honed from 16 years of experience. I don't go into anybody's workplace and tell them how to do his or her job, I don't expect anyone to come into my workplace to tell me how to do my job.
Yah people come into my workplace to tell me how to do my job all the time. Doing our jobs in a bunker just is not possible. I have the FDA, business partner auditors, vendors, clients telling me how to do my job All The Time. They are called stakeholders. They interfere. And right they should. While the "I pay the teacher's salary" mentality is moronic, if you view interested parents as interference rather than concerned stakeholders, well, I am betting you are not a very good teacher.
Yah people come into my workplace to tell me how to do my job all the time. Doing our jobs in a bunker just is not possible. I have the FDA, business partner auditors, vendors, clients telling me how to do my job All The Time. They are called stakeholders. They interfere. And right they should. While the "I pay the teacher's salary" mentality is moronic, if you view interested parents as interference rather than concerned stakeholders, well, I am betting you are not a very good teacher.
The most important stakeholders I serve are the students. Maybe you didn't read the entire thread, but I work with high school students. Not only do I have to get them academically ready for life after high school, but I have to help them be ready to live on their own.
Very few parents where I work have legitimate complaints about the school. Mostly they complain about rules when their child gets in trouble ("Why can't they use their phones to text during class? I needed to tell them where I was picking them up after school today."). They try to manipulate the system to benefit their child ("My 4.0 student has an undiagnosed learning disability and needs to be allowed to have extended time on tests so he can get that accommodation on the ACT/SAT."). You should read this post in the thread about helicopter parents.
When there is a problem regarding a student in my class, I work it out with the student, not the parent. If the parent rushes in to save the student, it does the student no good. If the student solves the problem himself, not only does he gain pride in the achievement, but he gains confidence and independence to speak up in the future.
The most important stakeholders I serve are the students. Maybe you didn't read the entire thread, but I work with high school students. Not only do I have to get them academically ready for life after high school, but I have to help them be ready to live on their own.
They aren't your stakeholder. They are your job. The same job, incidentally, as their parents.
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Very few parents where I work have legitimate complaints about the school. Mostly they complain about rules when their child gets in trouble ("Why can't they use their phones to text during class? I needed to tell them where I was picking them up after school today."). They try to manipulate the system to benefit their child ("My 4.0 student has an undiagnosed learning disability and needs to be allowed to have extended time on tests so he can get that accommodation on the ACT/SAT."). You should read this post in the thread about helicopter parents.
I will readily grant that there are many parents whose vision of what is best for their children is misguided, at best.
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When there is a problem regarding a student in my class, I work it out with the student, not the parent. If the parent rushes in to save the student, it does the student no good. If the student solves the problem himself, not only does he gain pride in the achievement, but he gains confidence and independence to speak up in the future.
If you seek to undermine the relationship between parent and student, you don't do them any good either. If you cast all parents in the model that you have, you miss the opportunity to recognize the ones you could get to aid you in your cause, then same cause that they may have. Some of us are not morons and recognize the importance of achieving, independence and not getting rescued by Mamma. But some of us have actually gotten to know our children in 15-18 years in ways you really haven't in a single quarter regardless of how many master's degrees you have gone for.
Sorry. You have convinced me of nothing but that you are a self satisfied institutional parent hater. I have run into your sort as early as early elementary. Yes I get it. Some parents seek to coddle their kids. It is a crying shame for the kids. When they hit the world, the world will hit them back hard. But every teacher I have encountered like you is every bit as much of a pain in the ass to us as we are to you. Luckily most of you are bought with some expensive supplies that the school isn't getting for you or support of you next extra curricular endeavor. Mom becomes much more appealing once she has dropped the check book in your favor.
They aren't your stakeholder. They are your job. The same job, incidentally, as their parents.
I am not sure why you think the teacher has the same job in regards to the parent as to the student. I am not paid to educate parents.
How are parents a teacher's "job"?
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I will readily grant that there are many parents whose vision of what is best for their children is misguided, at best.
OK, I agree. That is exactly why I am an advocate for my students. Not for their parents.
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If you seek to undermine the relationship between parent and student, you don't do them any good either.
Sometimes teachers are the only ones who can get through to a student in ways parents cannot. That isn't undermining the relationship, between parent and child. All it does is highlight the inherent limitations of the parent/child relationship in regards to educational goals.
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If you cast all parents in the model that you have, you miss the opportunity to recognize the ones you could get to aid you in your cause, then same cause that they may have.
Sorry but you are misconstruing here. This poster never said ALL parents.
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Some of us are not morons and recognize the importance of achieving, independence and not getting rescued by Mamma.
Agreed. But those parents are rarely seen at school and rarely heard from by the time a student is in high school. The poster you are referencing is clearly not talking about those parents.
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But some of us have actually gotten to know our children in 15-18 years in ways you really haven't in a single quarter regardless of how many master's degrees you have gone for.
Most of my students, I have had for two years. I also spend 3 hours a day with them. For many parents (and again notice the lack of the word "all") that is more than they spend with their children on the average day.
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Sorry. You have convinced me of nothing but that you are a self satisfied institutional parent hater.
I have yet to meet a teacher who actually hates parents, but I guess it is inevitable that they exist. I do know a teacher who has cried for most of her prep period multiple times this year because a parent harassed and abused her. This is a 19 year veteran, who has been teacher of the year at the state level, is known far and wide as being caring and compassionate, and is being harassed by a parent whose autistic child is struggling in her class. He has called her house, her boss, left nasty voicemails and email messages and has basically tried to run her out of the school. He is a monster on a scale that this poster is not remotely approaching. Yet, there is no recourse for a teacher.
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I have run into your sort as early as early elementary. Yes I get it. Some parents seek to coddle their kids. It is a crying shame for the kids. When they hit the world, the world will hit them back hard. But every teacher I have encountered like you is every bit as much of a pain in the ass to us as we are to you. Luckily most of you are bought with some expensive supplies that the school isn't getting for you or support of you next extra curricular endeavor. Mom becomes much more appealing once she has dropped the check book in your favor.
The above part is disgusting. I do not disagree with anything this poster has stated in the defense of our profession, so I suppose all the nasty character aspersions you throw on him applies to me as well. Well, for the record I have never let a parent pay for anything in my classroom. No supplies, no donations, nothing. Even the gifts I get at christmas and for writing letters of rec go into the gift auction baskets for the PTSA. Just because you disagree with our opinions does not mean we are on the take.
They aren't your stakeholder. They are your job. The same job, incidentally, as their parents.
How are students not stakeholders. They are the ones that have the most to gain or lose at school. They are the ones that are going to be rewarded when they do well, and punished when they break the rules. Their parents cannot earn the student's GPA for them, nor can they take the blame if the student does something wrong. I see my students everyday; I see their parents maybe once a semester. I will focus on the student.
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Originally Posted by somebodynew
If you seek to undermine the relationship between parent and student, you don't do them any good either. If you cast all parents in the model that you have, you miss the opportunity to recognize the ones you could get to aid you in your cause, then same cause that they may have. Some of us are not morons and recognize the importance of achieving, independence and not getting rescued by Mamma. But some of us have actually gotten to know our children in 15-18 years in ways you really haven't in a single quarter regardless of how many master's degrees you have gone for.
And I can see your child objectively. I can see the signs that you miss or do not want to acknowledge about your child's depression, drug use, or abusive relationship. In my class, I will teach your child to be independent and self-sufficient. I will hold them to high standards because that is what they want and need. If they fail, then I build them up again. I don't get upset over a "C" like many parents do, I work with the student to improve their skills, knowledge, and confidence. Your child won't fail my class, because I won't let him. We will meet during lunch or a free period or after school to make the progress they need. I watch their plays and their games. I sponsor their clubs. I do all of this because it creates a stronger bond with the student and the student is willing to go the extra mile because someone cares.
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Originally Posted by somebodynew
Sorry. You have convinced me of nothing but that you are a self satisfied institutional parent hater. I have run into your sort as early as early elementary. Yes I get it. Some parents seek to coddle their kids. It is a crying shame for the kids. When they hit the world, the world will hit them back hard. But every teacher I have encountered like you is every bit as much of a pain in the ass to us as we are to you. Luckily most of you are bought with some expensive supplies that the school isn't getting for you or support of you next extra curricular endeavor. Mom becomes much more appealing once she has dropped the check book in your favor.
So all you have left are ad hominem attacks. I have never been bought off, nor would I allow it. My classroom has all the expensive supplies it needs, because I buy them before the year begins with my own money. In the end it is the parents who are happy, because when my students pass their AP tests, they save thousands of dollars in college tuition.
If you do not like the teacher(s) your kids have then pull them out and homeschool or send to private. There are good and bad teachers out there and we have to remember this.
The op's issue I believe is consistency and I would take this up with the teacher and no longer the principal. Ask for in writing the classroom rules that you have concern about and if you disagree then pull the child out. There are so many homeschoolers now that you do this online, public library, in house.
Teachers are putting in more time than I do with my children through out the week so my hat is off to them. This is as long as they teach and follow up on what is being taught without watering down high standards that we need to be competitive when the children grow up. If they do water down standards then I would pull my children out without hesitation.
David by they way for the treats that the child brought in it was a share for the classroom for the child's birthday. This should have been conveyed to us parents at the beginning of the year as to not to run into this situation just bad communication on the part of the teacher.
Yah people come into my workplace to tell me how to do my job all the time. Doing our jobs in a bunker just is not possible. I have the FDA, business partner auditors, vendors, clients telling me how to do my job All The Time. They are called stakeholders. They interfere. And right they should. While the "I pay the teacher's salary" mentality is moronic, if you view interested parents as interference rather than concerned stakeholders, well, I am betting you are not a very good teacher.
This right here. Good teachers welcome and encourage parent input and participation and feedback and regret those situations where they are not able to get it. Bad teachers think that they are the sole judge and arbiter of everything to do with the children. Hint: A high horse attitude with a superiority complex on the part of a teacher is counterproductive to establishing a partnership with the parents. For that matter, it's a bad attitude to have when teaching, as well.
Are there bad parents? Absolutely. Just as there are "I know everything and my way is the only way" teachers.
Are there parents whose ideas of what's best for their own children simply do not correlate with the teacher's particular ideas? Absolutely. And that is their right and, indeed, their responsibility, to know what's best for their children, not what's best for the teacher.
Bottom line: whose children are they? Hint: it's not the teacher.
The best suggestion I've seen thus far for the OP is to get with the other parents and see if there's a consensus on this, and if so, then take it to the teacher and, if that is not successful, take it to the principal.
I would volunteer my time at the school for a bit and point out the rediculous to the Principal/teacher and see what kind of response I got. There may be a reason for doing what they do and if they explained it and it made sense I'd leave it be. If they could offer no reason for doing what they do I would advise them that my child would continue to be a studet there but we (child/family/parents) would be ignoring anything that didn't make sense. They could give all the points they wanted and we wouldn't care...nothing would change...child would continue to do whatever it was and maybe even be encouraged to do it by me. I actually did something like this once and they stopped being stupid (a teacher had a particular obesession about something but it wasn't sanctioned by the principal...she didn't even know about it). Sometimes you just have to push back a bit for everyone to realize something isn't working. And I discovered that in many places, not just schools, some people didn't even know what other people were doing unless someone like myself points it out and forces them to deal with it.
I am not sure why you think the teacher has the same job in regards to the parent as to the student. I am not paid to educate parents.
How are parents a teacher's "job"?
I think you misread. I said the student is the teacher's job.
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Sometimes teachers are the only ones who can get through to a student in ways parents cannot. That isn't undermining the relationship, between parent and child. All it does is highlight the inherent limitations of the parent/child relationship in regards to educational goals.
Sorry but you are misconstruing here. This poster never said ALL parents.
He said that he should have the right to do his job without interference. I disagree. I did not see where he qualified that he should be free from only certain types of interference.
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Agreed. But those parents are rarely seen at school and rarely heard from by the time a student is in high school. The poster you are referencing is clearly not talking about those parents.
That was not clear to me at all.
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I have yet to meet a teacher who actually hates parents, but I guess it is inevitable that they exist.
Thank goodness!
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I do know a teacher who has cried for most of her prep period multiple times this year because a parent harassed and abused her. This is a 19 year veteran, who has been teacher of the year at the state level, is known far and wide as being caring and compassionate, and is being harassed by a parent whose autistic child is struggling in her class. He has called her house, her boss, left nasty voicemails and email messages and has basically tried to run her out of the school. He is a monster on a scale that this poster is not remotely approaching. Yet, there is no recourse for a teacher.
How am I going to say this without sounding even more condescending that I have already, accidentally mind you, been. If one of your stakeholder' ****ty behaviors is causing you to spend the day crying, then you are not, after all, a professional. When a business partner is pitching a fit over the state of our FDA submission, we don't all run to the bathroom for a big boo hoo. If you think they can't get every bit as ugly as your parent, you are mistaken. A professional figures it out.
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The above part is disgusting. I do not disagree with anything this poster has stated in the defense of our profession, so I suppose all the nasty character aspersions you throw o
Well, for the record I have never let a parent pay for anything in my classroom. No supplies, no donations, nothing. Even the gifts I get at christmas and for writing letters of rec go into the gift auction baskets for the PTSA. Just because you disagree with our opinions does not mean we are on the take.
What?!? On the take? Touch defensive much? I simply meant that their reticence to deal with parents can be handled by a smart parent if they want to.
My son once had a teacher that had an obsession with mechanical pencils. He hated when kids would interrupt class to sharpen their pencils. Every time I saw him, he would ask if my child had mechanical pencils. Even when I told him yes, my son does have them, he would deliver a soliloquy to the mechanical pencil. It was like his own personal quest to rid the word of pencil sharpeners.
Ugh.
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