Dispelling the Stereotypes of Drugs and Youth (parent, children, friends)

[steven_h]

Originally Posted by HiFi

Well when it's a young child it is often the failing of the family. The family was responsible for that little person and clearly they failed in that responsibility by leaving them to make decisions on their own; they abandoned them.

You give little credit to the inventiveness of those "little people", who know how to hide their addictions quite well until it can't be hidden anymore. Sometimes, that time is too late for parents to do a damn thing about it.

Originally Posted by cam1957

Thank you for offering your insight and I feel that booze should also be illegal.

THAT has been tried with devastating results! Unless, of course, you prefer thousands dying from bathtub booze, and tens of thousands going blind from methanol tainted booze.

[cam1957]

Originally Posted by HiFi

Well when it's a young child it is often the failing of the family. The family was responsible for that little person and clearly they failed in that responsibility by leaving them to make decisions on their own; they abandoned them.

How young are you talking? A human brain isn't fully developed in risk taking and decision making until age 25. I'm not saying that applies to all kids not knowing the consequences, because there definitely are kids that will never touch booze or drugs because they've been well educated on the subjects.

[cam1957]

Originally Posted by steven_h

You give little credit to the inventiveness of those "little people", who know how to hide their addictions quite well until it can't be hidden anymore. Sometimes, that time is too late for parents to do a damn thing about it.




THAT has been tried with devastating results! Unless, of course, you prefer thousands dying from bathtub booze, and tens of thousands going blind from methanol tainted booze.

You are absolutely right! I drank in high school and I'd down a quart to get drunk around 5:30-6:0 PM and I'd be sober by 9:00 for my curfew. My parents didn't fail me at all. I found a way to drink with my friends and not get caught by my parents. Kids can do a lot in a couple of hours. I couldn't have come from a more loving and strict family. I was a good kid in their eyes and I never got into trouble, but I was also a teen and teens and young adults do stupid things. Yes. teens are very inventive.

[T-310]

Originally Posted by cam1957

I agree with you that it is the user's responsibility. I do have to say that young people take a lot of risks, not only with booze and drugs, but even when they drive. How many young kids are killed in accidents because they have the need for speed and feel they are invincible.

I'm sorry for the loss of your brother. It's not easy loosing a sibling. I've been there too.

I was worried about my sons because their father is an alcoholic and most of his family was. I was worried that it could be hereditary or they would be more prone to addiction. I don't know how much truth there is to that though.

Thank you for offering your insight and I feel that booze should also be illegal.

Thanks. I went through all the phases of this loss and have come to the conclusion that you can't help anyone unless they want it. Clearly he didn't want it. He had been dried out no less than three times.

I don't drink. It is hereditary. My mother claims no alcoholism on her side and my father refuses to talk about it which I believe is wrong.

And it helps to talk about it.

[cam1957]

Originally Posted by T-310

Thanks. I went through all the phases of this loss and have come to the conclusion that you can't help anyone unless they want it. Clearly he didn't want it. He had been dried out no less than three times.

I don't drink. It is hereditary. My mother claims no alcoholism on her side and my father refuses to talk about it which I believe is wrong.

And it helps to talk about it.

You are absolutely right! I was married to their Dad for 21 yrs. and with him 4 yrs. prior to the marriage. We both were stupid and drank and did drugs until I almost died at age 25. I was stupid and did illegal drugs and maybe refused to believe if I did them in moderation, nothing could happen to me. Well, when my throat began to close, I called a friend that was a nurse anesthetist and she told me to take a double dose of Benadryl and that probably saved my life. We did drugs on the weekends occasionally. It was stupid, stupid, stupid! I never touched a drug after that experience and my husband also quit drugs at the same time. It was a blessing in disguise and I was lucky that it didn't kill me. Maybe the fact that my brain was fully developed at that time, made me be able to see the consequences of my stupid actions. I don't know. The illegal drug that we took was called crank back then. It was speed. I knew then how stupid we had been for many years and how lucky we were to be alive. I had an allergic reaction to a chemical in it.

I was foolish in believing my husband would eventually quit the booze. I left him twice because of it. He went to AA and got sober and I went back to him both times and both times after no more than 3-6 months, he went back to the booze.

He's the nicest and most outgoing person you'd ever want to meet. He was a happy drunk except the two times I left him. He never laid a hand on the kids. His booze was his priority in life, not me and the kids. The boys would ask what was wrong with Daddy and I'd tell them that he drank too much alcohol and to go an play in their rooms. I told him they wanted to know what was wrong with him and he did slow down on getting drunk so often. He refused to see he had a problem and would just switch between bourbon and beer. That was his way of "controlling" his drinking. His whole immediate family were alcoholics.

I left him when the boys were 11 and 18. I was married, but in reality, I was single. He was not an active father in their lives. He only did what he "had" to do as a parent as everything else in his life came secondary to the booze.

Without going into a book over this. He wouldn't let me take the boys when I left. My older son went to college for 2 years and was thrown out because he partied too much and his GPA plummeted. He moved into the Frat house at his father's coaxing in his 2nd yr. He moved back in with hid dad. He re-married a woman and they threw the older one out of the house and he got an apartment. My younger son loved the new wife at first, but began hating living there.

I was going to buy a house and my younger son said he didn't want to leave the school district, so I bought a house in his school district. When he told his Dad that he wanted to come and live with me, he came home from school one day and all of his clothes were bagged up on the front porch. They wouldn't let him in the house and told him to go live with your Mother. I went and picked him up and he lived with me. He was 13 when this happened and he disowned our boys because of it and choosing his new wife's family over his own sons.

He tried to go and see and apologize to his dad, but they wouldn't answer the door. He would call and talk to the wife and she'd tell him that his dad wasn't ready to talk to him. I called and tried to talk to him, but always got her. This 13 y/o kid cried his eyes out so many nights wanting his dad.
It got to the point where she blocked my phone #. Later when we got cell phones, she blocked his cell. He asked me to give him my cell and he put it on speaker so I could hear what went on. He called and she answerer and as soon as she heard is voice, she started humming? So he called again and it immediately disconnected.

He ran into them at the grocery store once and his dad turned his back on him and refused to speak with him. He was about 17 when this happened.

Fast forward to my son being 20 y/o and in the Navy. He found out that the wife had died, so he called his dad and he FINALLY spoke to him after 7 long years. They made amends 6 months before my son died.

I was engaged during those years and my son did have my fiance as a positive male role model and a mentor from church and also his best friend's Dad.

I know for a fact that his fathers disowning him during the most formative years when he needed a dad the most had MAJOR emotional impacts on him.

The night he died, his father came here and went out onto my back porch and screamed his head off. I wanted to go and strangle him for having the audacity to show such grief for a child that he had only reconnected with 6 months prior to his death. All throughout the week of the funeral he kept saying what a good job WE did in raising such a fine son. Anyone who knew my son knew that his father was absent in his life 7 year prior to his death.

I can turn the other cheek and me and my family were more than cordial to him during the funeral process. I even talk to him now and he continues to take credit for raising good sons and I'll just let him live in his alcohol induced world.

Do I blame him for being an absent parent? Sometimes, but I also know that I could have been in my son's shoes 30 some years ago because I was stupid when I was young.

I have forgiven him for what he did to me, but my heart isn't ready to forgive what he did to my sons yet.

I was a good parent and at times I blame myself asking if I could have been better. I've been told by his mentor that I was the rock in his life. I was told by his Navy officers that I raised a fine young man.

By me telling the truth about this whole situation, I'm trying to show that young people make mistakes and possibly part of it is due to the brain not being completely mature until age 25.

I'm trying to get the point across that he took legal drugs and died because he mixed it or them with booze.

I'm trying to make the point to judgmental adults that drink and get drunk aren't smarter than someone who takes a legal or illegal drug.

Getting drunk cause many, many problems in the world because of the stupid actions it causes adults to do. Because someone drinks to excess and are an adult over the age of 25, are they any better than a kid that does illegal or legal drugs. In my mind, it's something to ponder because I saw the effects of alcoholism in my husband for the 25 years I was with him. And before any judgements are made one me staying with him, I have no regrets because my sons are/were my biggest blessings in life.

I'm sorry for going on, but I'm trying to show there's always more sides to the story than what we think.

[Dr. Duffy]

Originally Posted by cam1957

I do agree with you that there's many factors. I did my best to educate him, but it didn't work. When they did the autopsy, a researcher from the Univ. of Pitt called and asked if they could take a slice of his brain, I guess for different types of studies they do on young adults that had had a past history of drug use and I agreed. I released all of his medical records to them and then a researcher came to the house to go over his history with me.

I was definitely afraid of drinking being that he just turned 21, but I thought he had stopped doing drugs since he was doing so well in the Navy.

I do agree with the anonymity of online and I just don't understand the lack of compassion or stereotyping the cause.

Thank you so much for your heartfelt and informative post!

You're welcome.

It can be very hard to tell when someone is or isn't using depending on the drug and how much they use - particularly an adult on their own. Something like a pill is very easy to conceal, and it's usually done secretly unless it's with others that use.

[wildflower82]

Originally Posted by cam1957

How young are you talking? A human brain isn't fully developed in risk taking and decision making until age 25. I'm not saying that applies to all kids not knowing the consequences, because there definitely are kids that will never touch booze or drugs because they've been well educated on the subjects.

Very sorry for your loss and your brave courage to talk about it.........
I personally feel it's the taste and the high they desire. I have family members who know they mess up while drunk, but never admit it's the alcohol. Always something else caused it, although they were drunk.

One thing about people who like to drink, booze doesn't care how big ones wallet is. I feel alcohol is one of the worst things along with prescription drugs, and mostly anti-depressants. Both have destoryed friends and members of my family and still are.

[cam1957]

Originally Posted by Dr. Duffy

You're welcome.

It can be very hard to tell when someone is or isn't using depending on the drug and how much they use - particularly an adult on their own. Something like a pill is very easy to conceal, and it's usually done secretly unless it's with others that use.

I don't know whether it's good or not, but being that I was stupid and used drugs when I was young, I knew when his pupils were large that he had taken something. I knew that if he was clenching his teeth, I'd take his pulse to find it racing and I knew he had taken something.

I took him for counseling and thought he was fine. I even set up a Dr. appt. with my PCP unbeknownst to him to have a blood and urine screening to make sure he was clean and he was.

I thought when he went into the Navy and it was his dream to be a S.E.A.L., that he'd wise up, but I was wrong.

I know in my heart that I did as much as I could do, but there'll always be that little bit of doubt that breaks through and I ask myself what more could I have done for him.

Thank you so very much for your information regarding the subject.

[stan4]

I agree the brain isn't completely formed but that doesn't mean you don't have the power to choose.

I think part of the problem is that we don't take drug/alcohol use in this country seriously. I am willing to bet the true number of alcoholics is underreported because so much casual/social drinking is so acceptable that I bet it obscures the distinction.

Drink and drive? Well, practically no real consequences for that. Drink and drive and kill someone? The alcohol/drugs actually LESSENS your sentence. Because it mitigates intent. Really? I think you intended to drink/get high. Near a car. Or away from home. Don't give me that b.s.

Then there is the more important question that no one is busy asking while they are arguing whether pot is safer than booze is WHY THE HECK DO YOU NEED ALL THAT CRAP TO HAVE A GOOD TIME? Why? Why not look inward and try to understand what the heck is wrong with you that you can't enjoy yourself or life without a mind altering substance? This is not ever a conversation. This question is poo-poo'd and you get answers like, "Because I feel like it and if I feel like it then I should be allowed to do it." It's juvenile. People should be more self-aware.

I think another big problem is the disease model of drug/alcohol abuse.
It takes all the responsibility away from the person drinking/doing drugs.
Makes them a victim (thereby stripping power from them and making it all seem hopeless).
And frankly, it's not a model we should perpetuate because people misinterpret what it means to be dependent. They really think it means they don't have any control. That is total b.s.

[Dr. Duffy]

Originally Posted by cam1957

I don't know whether it's good or not, but being that I was stupid and used drugs when I was young, I knew when his pupils were large that he had taken something. I knew that if he was clenching his teeth, I'd take his pulse to find it racing and I knew he had taken something.

I took him for counseling and thought he was fine. I even set up a Dr. appt. with my PCP unbeknownst to him to have a blood and urine screening to make sure he was clean and he was.

I thought when he went into the Navy and it was his dream to be a S.E.A.L., that he'd wise up, but I was wrong.

I know in my heart that I did as much as I could do, but there'll always be that little bit of doubt that breaks through and I ask myself what more could I have done for him.

Thank you so very much for your information regarding the subject.

It sounds like you did a lot to try to help him and that you knew what to look for in a lot of cases. Taking him for the drug screen is something I advocate for a lot of parents and commend you for doing it. That gave you reason to believe he was clean, and he may have been for a while. It's unfortunate that he continued down that path despite having success and other big goals. It can be a tough battle. It's certainly natural for you to have those doubts at times. I hope some of that fades as you continue to find peace and strength after such a loss.