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I may have said this already (not time to read the whole thing). The average age for first marriage for women is 27 in the US. Nearly half of all woman marry later than age 27. Obviously that means many women maybe most are having their first child after the age of 30.
What I is see eating up many women and robbing them of freedom to make choices is this absurd concept that you can and should be everything and be great at it. Sorry. That does not work. You want a professional career - it takes all of you. There is insufficient time and energy to also focus on being a great mom, household manager, supportive spouse, etc. You want to be a great mom the best mom. Well that takes all of you too and there is only one all of you. You want to be a supportive spouse and stand by your man. Help them achieve success. Well that takes another all of you at elast in many career areas (politician, lawyer, minister come readily to mind, but it applies at least to some extent across the board, a man will be more successful with a woman doing all she can to back him up support him help make things work out). The Enjoli commercial did more to hurt women than anything (well the concept, not just the commercial). I see scores of women believing they must bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan and never never never let you forget your a man - oh and also be a great mom. . . and mange a household. . . and. . . . Since it cannot be done, they feel like the are substandard. They kill themselves trying and still feel like a failure all the time. Our expectations of women are destroying their lives. Pick something and be that and just be happy with being the best at that thing.
Yes, you can readily change roles. A man can support a woman's career (I know some guys who are teachers and use the available time to help their wife advance in her profession). A man can fill the role of being a great mom, in lieu of a career (I know some of them too, one who was a stay at home dad, other who took a stagnant career path so they could be the family manager and support their spouses career). The point is you cannot be all of those things and do any of them well. I have seen this for years as a lawyer. Why do fewer women become law firm partners? Because they are also trying to be great moms and/or supportive spouses. It does not work. You want to be a partner, you have to give everything. Make it your life. If you do not, other people will and they will become partners instead. They struggle and struggle trying to be all of those things. Frequently they neglect their relationship and end up as a single Mom which is even more impossible. Then they get passed up and get angry. Is it because of sexism? Maybe a little, but it is mostly because they are not putting in the weekends and nights socializing, fishing, golfing, boating or whatever with clients. They are not able to work 7/16s for a three month long trial. They cannot attend 6 a.m. meetings every day for a week, because they have to take the kids to school, deal with a sick child etc. Meanwhile, I am helping out when I can with the kids and family, but when something demanding comes up, my wife takes over everything and I commit everything full time to the work effort. Of course I will eventually advance over the woman who is also trying to be a great mm and/or a supportive spouse, even more experienced women. I have seen women whose spouse has a less demanding job so they can fill the family manager role, but I have not seen it work. Not ever. Typically the man does not fulfill the role to the woman's level of expectation and she feels she has to do it (men are not as good at being moms as women are and do not have the same priorities - that is probably cultural, but might be genetic); or they fight and get divorced.
That is the reality. It does not work. When you point that out, people get mad and call you names. Still it does not change the simple fact. You cannot give your all to multiple things. There is only one of you and only one all. You have to choose.
Yes you can share responsibilities too, but then everyone is giving a fraction of what is needed to be the best in any of the areas. The fact is, it does not work. Or at least very rarely and only for truly exceptional people.
You can choose to be a mediocre mom and a mediocre professional and a mediocre supportive spouse, but our society tells you that is failure. You must be great at all those things. Or you are not a worthy Enjoli woman. So instead we have hoards of women feeling inadequate unhappy, losing self esteem. It is not fair. We need to change our standards, but even if there was a will to do so, it would take generations. Right now it cannot change because if you suggest what is obvious (ie you cannot do all of those things and do them well), then you get called all kinds of names. Hater, misogynist, backwards, hick, whatever.
My wife recognizes this. She chose momming over a career and then started her professional career when the kids got older and less needy. She was incredibly helpful to me in my career and I would not have risen to the heights that I did without her help and support. Women competing against me for partnership were competing against us, not just me. They did not have a chance. Still she feels inadequate. She feels like she should have had a career all along and that she should have put more into Momming and been even more supportive. While momming, she felt inadequate because she was not earning much, or because she sometimes could not help me out with marketing/schmoozing events (whcih she was always way better at than I was anyway). When she worked while Momming she felt inadequate because she was missing kids stuff, no longer helping out in the classroom, no longer panning great educational outings in the afternoons, etc. I could tell her all day long she is awesome and doing a great job and it was ok and a good idea to back off on her expectations of herself, but it is her standards, influenced by our society, not mine that really matter. She was never able to meet her standards for herself to excel in all of these things. No one can and many if not most women I know end up feeling inadequate because of this. they also fail to be all they are capable of being in all of these areas because they re trying to excel in every area and unable to focus on one.
To the OP if you want to just focus on your career and not have kids - that is perfectly ok too. There is nothing that says you must marry, must have kids, must be a perfect mom, wife, professional, manager etc. (well nothing except an Enjoli commercial and some absurd societal standards).
Last edited by Coldjensens; 08-24-2018 at 07:12 AM..
We are fooled by Hollywood into thinking that the nuclear family model is still relevant.
It literally takes a village to raise a child. Don't believe anyone who says otherwise because they likely are relying on a nanny or just won't admit they don't think they're doing a good job.
50% of marriages end in divorce. The days were all states have permanent alimony are long gone. If you get married at 19 to your HS sweetheart, have 2 kids by 23, and are divorced by 27 with only being a SAHM on your resume, then what? You have no skills or education to offer the workforce. It is hard to support yourself just on child support. Meanwhile, the professional woman or woman who has a career will not have those issues. The divorce attorney can only work with the laws that are available. The laws today are not the laws of 1965.
You really need to widen your circle of experience if you think SAHM automatically equates with unskilled.(Or if you think ‘professional’ woman equates with ‘independent’).
Only about a quarter of the U.S has a bachelors degree or higher IIRC and that statistic includes men. That means the vast majority of the American workforce is, by your definition ‘uneducated’. How do they get by pray tell? Are they all on welfare? Or they work but the paychecks are reserved only for those with degrees? Are they struggling to get by?
People deal with divorce day in day out. People of all walks. Most of them dust themselves off and keep on living. Yes, even the ‘uneducated’ and ‘unskilled’ ones that weren’t in the workforce. Contrary to popular belief, most jobs do not require a Degree.(And many income streams do not require a traditional job)
My husband and I were 27 when we had our first. In hindsight, we really should have waited a good 5 more years, because we were not as established as we should have been before having kids. Of course, we wanted to be done having kids at 30, because at the time that seemed so old, lol.
HA I love how 30 seems ancient to someone who is 20. Think about this, there's only 15 years in between the prime of your life and middle age. 25 years old ... 40 years old. One is vibrant and the other is the new "elderly". 15 freaking years. That's all.
What I is see eating up many women and robbing them of freedom to make choices is this absurd concept that you can and should be everything and be great at it. Sorry. That does not work. You want a professional career - it takes all of you. There is insufficient time and energy to also focus on being a great mom, household manager, supportive spouse, etc. You want to be a great mom the best mom. Well that takes all of you too and there is only one all of you. You want to be a supportive spouse and stand by your man. Help them achieve success. Well that takes another all of you at elast in many career areas (politician, lawyer, minister come readily to mind, but it applies at least to some extent across the board, a man will be more successful with a woman doing all she can to back him up support him help make things work out). The Enjoli commercial did more to hurt women than anything (well the concept, not just the commercial). I see scores of women believing they must bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan and never never never let you forget your a man - oh and also be a great mom. . . and mange a household. . . and. . . . Since it cannot be done, they feel like the are substandard. They kill themselves trying and still feel like a failure all the time. Our expectations of women are destroying their lives. Pick something and be that and just be happy with being the best at that thing.
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That is the reality. It does not work. When you point that out, people get mad and call you names. Still it does not change the simple fact. You cannot give your all to multiple things. There is only one of you and only one all. You have to choose.
nable to focus on one.
To the OP if you want to just focus on your career and not have kids - that is perfectly ok too. There is nothing that says you must marry, must have kids, must be a perfect mom, wife, professional, manager etc. (well nothing except an Enjoli commercial and some absurd societal standards).
I agree 100%.
I see this in the workplace as well. Ironically, women, especially those with kids get no pass on the requirements for making partner or finding their way to the boardroom in some way due to the feminist ‘equality’ movement. While it was necessary (still is) the unintended consequences are that you cannot ask for special consideration when it comes to what is required to move up. You can either do what the boys do or stay below that ceiling.
The fact that there is a ceiling is problematic. But the fact that women seem to be oblivious to what it takes to be in those boardrooms is a bigger problem. That level of achievement often requires a huge amount of focus and time. Dedicating that much energy in one direction usually means little time for much else. Men have known this for centuries and have made their peace with it. Its time women did the same. The current ‘you can do it all’ mantra they are selling our daughters will set them up for failure and disappointment.
You really need to widen your circle of experience if you think SAHM automatically equates with unskilled.(Or if you think ‘professional’ woman equates with ‘independent’).
Only about a quarter of the U.S has a bachelors degree or higher IIRC and that statistic includes men. That means the vast majority of the American workforce is, by your definition ‘uneducated’. How do they get by pray tell? Are they all on welfare? Or they work but the paychecks are reserved only for those with degrees? Are they struggling to get by?
People deal with divorce day in day out. People of all walks. Most of them dust themselves off and keep on living. Yes, even the ‘uneducated’ and ‘unskilled’ ones that weren’t in the workforce. Contrary to popular belief, most jobs do not require a Degree.(And many income streams do not require a traditional job)
I was responding to the person who said that women should have kids early, before gaining skills. Certainly if you get skills before becoming a SAHM, that is a different story. However, if you have skills you can use if you get a divorce, you are far better off than if you get a divorce and have only ever been a SAHM or were only in the workforce doing unskilled jobs for 2-3 years. The world today is different than it was 15-20 years ago. Employers are requiring degrees and more skills.
HA I love how 30 seems ancient to someone who is 20. Think about this, there's only 15 years in between the prime of your life and middle age. 25 years old ... 40 years old. One is vibrant and the other is the new "elderly". 15 freaking years. That's all.
I was a younger Mom (had both my children in my twenties). My youngest is now 26 and single with no children. I was kind of hoping she would marry and have children in her twenties so I could have grandchildren close by but I'm thinking it will now most likely be in her thirties.
Where we live now is a lot different than where we came from. People get married so much sooner here in the South (college and high school sweethearts). While I am happy she did not marry her previous longterm boyfriend, I am hearing about her new dating pool of men and it seems that many have already been married and are now divorced and many even have children. It's not like in the SF Bay Area (or other areas where careers are the focus in your 20's and even 30's) where it wasn't unusual for many people to have never been married with no children at that age.
You have to do what's right for you! No one else can determine that. It truly doesn't matter for your life, what the experiences of others have been. What do you need and want most in your life? What will you regret most if you don't experience it? What gives you satisfaction in life?
What you don’t seem to understand is that early marriage and minimal education limit a woman’s ability to be what she wants to be. We don’t have to be undereducated and financially-dependent in order to be good wives and mothers.
It doesn’t have to be that way; that’s a feminist lie that has provided women with an excuse for mitigating their own potential. It’s astounding to me that nobody ever questions that the feminist agenda “eats it’s own young”.
I was a single, pregnant, teenager with a 9th grade education who then got married at the age of 17 before the baby was born.
I got my GED & started community college at age 18, as a parent of a 7 month old son. I qualified for a Pell grant thanks to my status of living in abject poverty. I was pregnant with baby number two at age 19, number three at age 20 & graduated at age 22, nine months pregnant with number four, took my state boards & passed first time as a Registered Nurse when he was two weeks old.
I worked up until the night my water broke with the first set of twins (#’s 5 & 6) & I was back to work eight weeks later. By the time I was 36; I had 11 kids & had 14 years in with my college-education requiring career choice. Private health insurance, no food stamps, WIC, welfare, completely self-sustainable.
And I’m supposed to believe that a married 18 year old’s whole life is over if she has one baby? Not.
If she uses that as an excuse as to why she never got an education when she’s 45? I call BS & so should everybody else.
You can have kids young & get an education. You can have kids young & make money. You can have kids young & travel with the kids & have fun doing it.
The only thing you can’t do? Is have kids when you’re too old.
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