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I work with really sick kids. That is my defense. I tolerate people who delay vaccines. I say tolerate because I would of course like to see people vax on schedule. But I respect people who inform themselves... But it is very irritating to treat sick kids because of a decision made by a parent that was/is clearly not an informed decision. What is the fault in that?
That is your defense, and I admire your passion for children.
But you have to respect that there are people, like myself, who don't agree with the schedule.
For me, the schedule is what is in question. The thought of giving a small child 4-5 immunizations in one sitting is mind-blowing to me.
I will also tell you that I have 4 friends who are Mothers of children with autism. And they all have the same story, my son was fine, he went to the doctor, had his scheduled shots (around the age of 2-3), spiked a fever, went into convulsions, and the next day he was not the same kid, and it went downhill from there. SAME STORY EVERY TIME...
I have this information, I know these women, I see the grief in thier faces and in their lives, and they can mark in time the exact moment when it happened.
You can't have this kind of information and not ask questions. If you don't go looking for answers or at least try to do something within that equation differently, then you are not a very intelligent person, I think...
My god, when I was pregnant they were trying to give ME a flu shot with a baby inside of me. For what? I never get sick, I'm beyond healthy. No way!
One day, there will be a definitive answer based on empirical proof, but until then I am not taking any chances with my son's life.
He gets his shots, just not all in one sitting when he is so young and his brain so under-developed.
I called you an extremist because that is the way you come across in your posts. You are very one-sided, and I don't like that, especially when it comes to this topic because both sides are just as important. When people are extreme on this topic, I feel that it locks up the argument, and delays finding real solutions to this epidemic, which I feel lies somewhere in the middle.
I work with really sick kids. That is my defense. I tolerate people who delay vaccines. I say tolerate because I would of course like to see people vax on schedule. But I respect people who inform themselves... But it is very irritating to treat sick kids because of a decision made by a parent that was/is clearly not an informed decision. What is the fault in that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by beanandpumpkin
The fault in that is that it's not a black or white issue. Not having children vaccinated is not an uninformed decision. Someone who researches the issue IS informed.
Do you think that going along with vaccinations with no questions for the doctor makes one informed? More informed than someone who spent their whole pregnancy researching and talking to professionals and decides TO vaccinate? What if that same person decided NOT to vaccinate... does that make them less informed, because of the decision that they made?
No...and I never said that. However, I do find it irritating to be treating an infant close to death and having the mother say she refused the vaccine because she thinks her neighbor's daughter had a bad reaction to it. So she followed suit. I don't think that is an informed decision do you? You're so eager to jump all over health care workers urging people to do the right thing. Why is that? I never said people who research this topic are uninformed. Your putting words in my mouth. I get irritated with people who decide to not vaccinate without knowing the right information. It is a sad thing to watch a parent become educated on a vaccine as their child lays in a hospital suffering from the disease they refused to vaccinate against. That is my point. I think that is the wrong time to school yourself on the pro's and con's of the vaccine.
Last edited by *Danielle*; 11-25-2008 at 08:27 PM..
That is your defense, and I admire your passion for children.
But you have to respect that there are people, like myself, who don't agree with the schedule.
For me, the schedule is what is in question. The thought of giving a small child 4-5 immunizations in one sitting is mind-blowing to me.
I will also tell you that I have 4 friends who are Mothers of children with autism. And they all have the same story, my son was fine, he went to the doctor, had his scheduled shots (around the age of 2-3), spiked a fever, went into convulsions, and the next day he was not the same kid, and it went downhill from there. SAME STORY EVERY TIME...
I have this information, I know these women, I see the grief in thier faces and in their lives, and they can mark in time the exact moment when it happened.
You can't have this kind of information and not ask questions. If you don't go looking for answers or at least try to do something within that equation differently, then you are not a very intelligent person, I think...
My god, when I was pregnant they were trying to give ME a flu shot with a baby inside of me. For what? I never get sick, I'm beyond healthy. No way!
One day, there will be a definitive answer based on empirical proof, but until then I am not taking any chances with my son's life.
He gets his shots, just not all in one sitting when he is so young and his brain so under-developed.
I called you an extremist because that is the way you come across in your posts. You are very one-sided, and I don't like that, especially when it comes to this topic because both sides are just as important. When people are extreme on this topic, I feel that it locks up the argument, and delays finding real solutions to this epidemic, which I feel lies somewhere in the middle.
OK...did you not read that I respect people who delay as long as it is an informed decision? I think your an extremist waiting to pounce on people with different views. I RESPECT YOUR DECISION. HOw is that a one sided extremist view?
OK...did you not read that I respect people who delay as long as it is an informed decision? I think your an extremist waiting to pounce on people with different views. I RESPECT YOUR DECISION. HOw is that a one sided extremist view?
I don't care if you respect my decision or not. The tone of all of your previous posts were one-sided and accusatory until someone called you to the carpet. The fact that you would even call me an extremist is outrageous because my feelings lay in the middle of both sides.
So now, you are not only an extremist, but a back-peddler.
That is your defense, and I admire your passion for children.
But you have to respect that there are people, like myself, who don't agree with the schedule.
For me, the schedule is what is in question. The thought of giving a small child 4-5 immunizations in one sitting is mind-blowing to me.
I will also tell you that I have 4 friends who are Mothers of children with autism. And they all have the same story, my son was fine, he went to the doctor, had his scheduled shots (around the age of 2-3), spiked a fever, went into convulsions, and the next day he was not the same kid, and it went downhill from there. SAME STORY EVERY TIME...
I have this information, I know these women, I see the grief in thier faces and in their lives, and they can mark in time the exact moment when it happened.
You can't have this kind of information and not ask questions. If you don't go looking for answers or at least try to do something within that equation differently, then you are not a very intelligent person, I think...
My god, when I was pregnant they were trying to give ME a flu shot with a baby inside of me. For what? I never get sick, I'm beyond healthy. No way!
One day, there will be a definitive answer based on empirical proof, but until then I am not taking any chances with my son's life.
He gets his shots, just not all in one sitting when he is so young and his brain so under-developed.
I called you an extremist because that is the way you come across in your posts. You are very one-sided, and I don't like that, especially when it comes to this topic because both sides are just as important. When people are extreme on this topic, I feel that it locks up the argument, and delays finding real solutions to this epidemic, which I feel lies somewhere in the middle.
Thank you so much for your post. I agree totally with all you have said.
I have read this thread, starting typing a few times - but cleared it out because I could not find the correct words without anger in my tone. You just solved that for me.
I, too, am not taking any chances with my son's life. I carried him 9 months, avoided chemicals, ate organic, loaded up on the supplements - including the DHA which was NEVER mentioned to me by my doctor, and I too, stayed away from the flu vaccine.
I was 41 and pregnant. Considered high risk due to age, yet also because I have Fibromyalgia and take medication daily. My doctor only spoke of the down side, wanted me to do Amnio, wanted a total of 15 ultrasounds for 'her peace of mind'. I did the research, discovered ultrsounds literally cook brain cells, and told her 'no thank you'. (ultrasounds are also suspected as being a contributing factor to Autism and other neuro defects, though this info is not easily found).
Not once did I hear anything positive. Only how high my chances of Downs Syndrome was, and 'be prepared' as he would be in the hospital for weeks due to my medication and his 'withdrawal'. She attempted to push BP meds at me (more drugs!), and I refused. I found out later I had been listed as 'non-compliant'.Tough.
I tried to tell her my BP was up because I was working and on my feet, but she wouldn't listen, and it was alway shigher in her office as I knew I was in for a fight. When I quit work - BP back to normal. Imagine that! Same with Blood sugar. She was certain it was high and made me test four times - normal every time. She could not get it through her head everything was wonderful!
Despite all of her odds, and pessimistic attitude, my son was born with an APGAR of 9 - the highest rating on the scale my doctor uses. Never a problem, except I did not dialate higher than 7 and after 15 hours, we went c-section. We were home in two days.
He is perfect.
Now, he eats organic baby food, organic milk, takes his supplements daily, and I clean with only steam and baking soda. I am still doing the research with vaccines, and consume all info I can - Soooo, after all of this... why would I want to purposefully inject my son with toxins on a schedule determined by 'the powers that be' for no good reason?
When my older children were this age, they took a series of 10 shots. At last count, if we took all they tried to shove at us, my baby would have a series of 36. The ingredients have changed (this we know for fact) while at the same time the Autism rates have climbed beyond belief. Don't tell me the two are not connected unless you have proof beyond a shadow of a doubt.
If the FDA can be, and is, a lobbyed entity, swayed by the drug companies who have obligation only to their stock holders - don't tell me the push for more vaccines has nothing to do with money and is only in the best interest of my child. Do not tell me the schedule is based on scientific evidence and is better for the child unless you have proof positive shooting mercury and components of anti-freeze into a developing brain have no cause and effect.
Truth is, they have NO IDEA what this current schedule is going to bring, and won't until about 5 years or so down the road. Not all Thimerasol has been removed, and it is next to impossible (where I am) to get an ingredient list before the shot.
I have an open mind - therefore I continue to research and fully support greening our vaccines. My open mind tells me why fix what is not broken (within my child) and take a chance on turning a bright, brilliant baby into a blank stare, or worse, because some doctor said so.
I worked in the medical field for 13 years. I have seen sick children too. Extremely sick. These kids were ALL vaccinated, yet that did not stop them from contracting disease which could kill them. The whooping cough epidemic in my community right now is among VACCINATED children.
My last thought - doctors are not God. They often are not aware of new studies until pointed out to them by patients. It is our responsibility as parents to be advocates for our children and not take the word of a doctor as gospel. They are wrong too often, and especially wrong to assume EVERY child can withstand the same amount of vaccine on the same schedule. How do they know- when it is, afterall, called 'practicing medicine' - they haven't gotten it right yet.
To vax or not to vax is a very personal decision. I do not condemn parents who vaccinate, but I do everything I can to educate those around me before they blindly follow. I respect the decisons of all parents, as I wish to be respected. My goal is education. The more you know and discover for yourself, the better parent you can be.
YOur son's chances are greater for getting the disease verses suffering from a severe side effect.
My kids were vaxed on schedule with no problems what so ever. Maybe a low grade fever along with being a little grumpy. But I would rather have that then the alternative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Danielle*
They don't even site the raw data. Or link to the actual study.
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Danielle*
The chances of getting Diphtheria here are low. And that is because of one reason, so many kids are vaccinated. But, if your child will travel to different countries, she/he could pick it up quickly. Prevention = immunization. It is highly contagious and it spreads super easy.
Tetanus is detrimental. It is a global health problem and it occurs mainly in unvaxed people. This is one I would never skip.
You either decide to deal with the side effects ofthe shot:
may cause irritation, redness, swelling, warmth, itching, bruising, pain and a hard lump at the injection site which lasts a few days up to a week. Other side effects include low grade fever, muscle or joint aches, general body discomfort, flushing or itching.
Or you risk dealing with the disease itself.
results in severe, uncontrollable muscle spasms. The jaw is "locked" by muscle spasms, causing the disease to sometimes be called "lockjaw." In severe cases, the muscles used to breathe can spasm, causing a lack of oxygen to the brain and other organs that may possibly lead to death.
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Danielle*
That is the key! If you people are OK with making the decision to have their kids suffer from preventable diseases that they will more then likely be exposed to at school...That is their mistake. I would love to know how many parents have had their kids turn blue and cough in pain (like your child did) as a result from a vaccine. Probably none.
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Danielle*
Why do you say this?
I work with really sick kids. That is my defense. I tolerate people who delay vaccines. I say tolerate because I would of course like to see people vax on schedule. But I respect people who inform themselves... But it is very irritating to treat sick kids because of a decision made by a parent that was/is clearly not an informed decision. What is the fault in that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Danielle*
No...and I never said that. However, I do find it irritating to be treating an infant close to death and having the mother say she refused the vaccine because she thinks her neighbor's daughter had a bad reaction to it. So she followed suit. I don't think that is an informed decision do you? You're so eager to jump all over health care workers urging people to do the right thing. Why is that? I never said people who research this topic are uninformed. Your putting words in my mouth. I get irritated with people who decide to not vaccinate without knowing the right information. It is a sad thing to watch a parent become educated on a vaccine as their child lays in a hospital suffering from the disease they refused to vaccinate against. That is my point. I think that is the wrong time to school yourself on the pro's and con's of the vaccine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Danielle*
OK...did you not read that I respect people who delay as long as it is an informed decision? I think your an extremist waiting to pounce on people with different views. I RESPECT YOUR DECISION. HOw is that a one sided extremist view?
Quote:
Originally Posted by old biddie
I don't care if you respect my decision or not. The tone of all of your previous posts were one-sided and accusatory until someone called you to the carpet. The fact that you would even call me an extremist is outrageous because my feelings lay in the middle of both sides.
So now, you are not only an extremist, but a back-peddler.
I have qouted every single post I made here. I spoke the truth. Nothing I wrote is not true. It is my opinion from my knowledge, experience and my research. I don't care if you call me an extremist... what did I say that was accusatory? I respect you delay. I respect you did your research. If it makes you feel better about your decision to name call someone who disagrees with you,,,OK. Whatever. But please, tell me what I said (above) that makes me an extremist, accusatory or a backpeddler? It sounds to me you have issues with people who disagree with your choice.
sorry, this wasn't out when my 4 year got her shots earlier this year. It is interesting. I have been saying that there needs to be more studies done on autoimmune disorders (which they think causes autism). So why on earth would nonvaccinated kids still get autism?
Actually, there is an opt out in Texas for all of the vaccines.
funny, both daycares and the church that did the pre-k for my son required it or they couldn't enroll. Like I said, these are privately run so maybe they can do it as a safety policy for the children.
Real funny! I could just see them refusing care to little kids!
why should everyone else pay for the misguided intentions of parents. A lot of insurances can fail to cover pre-existing conditions, why not unvaccinated children if they contract the disease they should have been vaccinated against?
When are people going to learn that it is best to prevent a disease than contract and treat it? Google the amount of money the US spends every year on preventable diseases. the numbers are astounding.
Danielle, I've got to tell you that you are quite an extremist.
You're in the all or nothing mode, which is your defense for something, I guess maybe just for defending the status quo, or maybe some deeper issue with immunizations that you are not sharing with us, I don't know.
The truth is, that unless you work for a drug company, what business is it of yours how parents who are not in the all or nothing camp with you, to talk of kids suffering, and limbs falling (slight exaggeration, but that is how you are coming off) off and that sort of thing.
Most of us who are not in your camp are taking a much more conservative approach (yes, we are the conservative ones here) instead of giving our kids copious amounts of shots in one sitting.
Listen carefully, most of us here are just talking about spreading out the shots, or selecting carefully, we are not a majorly of anti-vaccination. So stop going there!
This kind of action comes from people with an intelligent curiosity, because we are seeing something happening to kids at alarming rates and proportions and we are trying hard to protect our kids.
I don't question one's wanting to stretch out the vaccination schedule. Especially if your children are not in a daycare surrounding. But by selectively picking which one you choose doesn't make any sense. Why is it that a lot of these diseases aren't widely spread? Because of the vaccines. I have nothing against people who don't get the flu shot. I just laugh my butt off at them when they get the flu. Most of the vaccines are for diseases that are not highly curable, and can be fatal or disabilitating.
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