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It's hard to agree that counseling would do much good right now. She has been in and out of counseling for the past 2 years. The first counselor was at school and after she complained enough about how much she hated my mom, the counselor actually suggested she get emancipated at 13. She always confides in me even when she hates me and so of course I told her not all counselors are a good fit and that I didn't want her talking to that counselor any more. Then she moved onto a new psychotherapist where she had both individual sessions and sessions with her and my mom present. My mom filled the therapist with so much garbage with my sister sitting right there, that my sister never did really open up to her. She instead "played along" but continued doing all her self destructive behavior. Based on the lies my mom told, the therapist ended up convincing my mom that I was a threat to her and that spending time with me could push my sister over the edge. After that went so well, she went back to a new school counselor and to a narcotics anonymous group. Nothing much came of either, except that the narcotics counselor was a former junkie and kept razzing her about every little thing. She also went thru a drug addiction evaluation at a local hospital, the results came back suggesting she was severely depressed and should go thru outpatient treatment. Since moving in with us we did try the one drug group for teens but like I said even the counselors there misunderstood her and suggested she might need to move on.
Everything aside I do believe in her, and I also expect her to rebel like all typical teenagers, especially given that she has already tasted the freedom koolaid prematurely. It's ok that she hates me for our rules, what got to me about the email was that I felt betrayed because she said some things that were the opposite of what she said directly to me. In my family I am regarded as the control freak and weird one, because I adhere to my faith strictly and have high standards for myself and others. Some of my standards can seem extreme to some people (like; I don't listen to secular music, watch R rated movies and I believe girls/women should dress modestly) but things like drugs are bad, stealing is bad, lieing is wrong, gambling with your rent money is not wise, and sleeping around is dangerous and should not be done are things I believe most people no matter their faith would agree with me on. My family on the other hand are not most people and instead of accepting me for who I am, they condemn me because I have not fallen into the same mistakes they have made.
Helping her means I may get duped in the end, believing that she was progressing while all along she was just "playing along." She really has no way of proving herself to be really progressing because she literally has nowhere else to go. We live 2600 miles away from our mom and all her friends, the nearest other family is over 100 miles away and they don't want her. She is not in school so she knows no one. I am at home with her all the time so she can not use the internet or phone without my permission or knowledge. We also live outside our city limits so there is little to do and no public transportation available. Still after all this time and all our conversations I have my doubts that her addiction was ever "genuine", for the same reason I am doubting her "progress." Given our family history of manipulators she has been trained by the best narcissist in the world, our mom. Perhaps when she gets back in school I will be able to really judge how genuine she is. Is it too late... I hope not but for now I guess I will just have to wait and see.
Last edited by noplacelikeWA; 07-01-2008 at 08:10 AM..
You say you're a control freak. You expect to see progress. Have you considered that this entire situation is a lesson from God FOR YOU? He wants you to let go of the control and stop believing that you have the power to make a difference. You don't.
Simply love your sister as part of your family and stop trying to fix her. That isn't your job, it's God's. I know I wouldn't want to be around someone who kept trying to make me "right" because that implies that there's something wrong with me.
You've set down rules, you're providing a positive example by the way you live. Now pray for God to do the rest.
Again, it seems like this is stemming from hurt surrounding 1 email. I know you feel betrayed but you have to expect that she will say things like this....and I will bet you money that your other children will too. It doesn't mean they don't love you or that they even believe what they are writing, it sounds like they are just being typical teens.
If you don't want to try counseling, that is fine; however, counselors are like doctors, you will find some good ones and some crappy ones. You may have to shop around and you can't expect them to get her or for her to open up in just a few weeks. It will be a long-term commitment. Otherwise, it sounds like she's taking a bit to your church. Is there someone else there she can open up to? I'm glad that she is being so open with you, however, it's always great to have someone "non-mom" like to discuss things with.
You also say that you are wondering if her addiction is "genuine!?" Was she using drugs and alcohol at age 15 or below? She got drunk to the point where she was raped? Sounds like she needs help to me.....
I know it's really difficult, but really just try to focus on the positive here.
Lastly, have you considered discussing what you saw in the email with her? If it is bothering you enough that you were considering giving her up, then maybe you should
We live 2600 miles away from our mom and all her friends, the nearest other family is over 100 miles away and they don't want her.
That sounds like a blessing. I'm guessing the reason you're a "control freak" is because you had so little control over your life as a child and are making up for that now. I love what you're doing, and it sounds like you're doing just fine. This is a long slow journey--it doesn't happen overnight, but the fact that you love her and are concerned for her welfare may just be enough. If it's not, you'll have to be ready to let her go when she's old enough and don't take it too personally--your true reward is not on this earth. It sounds like your physical situation is for the best also--it may be as boring as all get out, but there are no temptations, and while that may not mean much now, perhaps as she matures, she will learn the value of that. The main thing here though, is don't take personally what she said privately to a cousin--it's her only outlet at this point. I know it's hard to not be hurt by it, but how much worse it would be if she were making plans to run away. Your mom sounds like a real piece of work.
Again, it seems like this is stemming from hurt surrounding 1 email. I know you feel betrayed but you have to expect that she will say things like this....and I will bet you money that your other children will too. It doesn't mean they don't love you or that they even believe what they are writing, it sounds like they are just being typical teens.
<snip>
BINGO!
Here's a story for ya;
When I was 14 I had to go live with my father. My brother (9 years older) had been shot and wasn't expected to live. He was in ICU for months. This happened at the end of my summer break, and my mom didn't feel like she could be "together" enough to care for me if she took me with her, since she would be spending all her time at the hospital (he was in Florida, we were in Texas).
So she sent me to live with my father and his wife. We lived near Corpus Christi, he lived in San Antonio (a 3 hour car trip). My father hadn't shown any interest in me in years. He paid child support on time, being a good, responsible Air Force guy... but that was it. My parents had split when I was 7 and my contact with him had been forced and infrequent.
His wife hated me. I had not been "sent" there due to any misbehavior on my part, but I was very quickly miserable. My father had no idea who I was so he set down arbitrary rules more appropriate for a 5 year old. My mother hadn't been super permissive or anything but I was a "good kid" and was allowed some normal teenage freedoms. My father reacted to my presence by basically putting me on house arrest and making me wear Little House on the Prairie clothes, not allowing me to have friends, or talk on the phone, nothing.
Long story short, I "vented" in a note (back before email, lol) to some guy I knew at school about my stepmother, how I hated her, how I couldn't stand the silly rules, blah blah blah. In the end I said something like "I wish she was dead!".
TOTAL teenager stuff. Well I made the mistake of tossing the letter in the trash and starting a new one (ever the perfectionist with grammar and spelling, even then)... and my stepmother went through my trash and found the letter. She blew this thing so out of proportion that mid-way through my school day, I received a call in the office from my father, who was convinced by his wife that I meant her physical harm, and he informed me that he was sending me "somewhere" and changing out the locks, told me to pack my stuff when I got home and wait for him. Said he wasn't going to let me "ruin his marriage". Oh and that my poor Stepmonster was too afraid to come to the house and was staying with her sister!
Well I went home and packed my own stuff and took off. Thankfully (though it was only a marginal improvement) my grandmother had recently relocated from Maryland to our city in Tx and I was able to run to her place and stay with her even though she was living in a motor home. It worked out until my mom was able to come back to Texas and get me. (Oh and yes, my brother survived the shooting..and we are still in San Antonio by default! LOL)
Point is, a simple and typical teenager complaint note caused this kind of chaos... so I'm begging you to take the teen stuff for what it is. Do you have children older than her? In other words, have you been through "teen stuff" yet?
You say you're a control freak. You expect to see progress. Have you considered that this entire situation is a lesson from God FOR YOU? He wants you to let go of the control and stop believing that you have the power to make a difference. You don't.
Simply love your sister as part of your family and stop trying to fix her. That isn't your job, it's God's. I know I wouldn't want to be around someone who kept trying to make me "right" because that implies that there's something wrong with me.
You've set down rules, you're providing a positive example by the way you live. Now pray for God to do the rest.
I don't profess to be a "control freak"... my extended family does. I am a fully devoted follower of Christ and He is in control of everything including whether or not my sister turns out ok. I am not trying to make my sister right, I don't expect progress either. What I want is mutual respect, I am not a doormat and God does not expect me to be either. If she accepts my help under the guise that she really is meaning to manipulate me than I am the fool. I am an instrument for God's work and I will minister to her as best as he equips me however I am also a steward of 4 other children and they need me too. Nobody can know the whole story in a public forum like this, there is too much family history to consider. My faith is why I carry on at all, and I am careful to remember that I am expected to pray and use good discernment in all things. I am as much a work in progress as she is and I trust the Lord will guide me to know what to do and when.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessiegirl_98
Again, it seems like this is stemming from hurt surrounding 1 email. I know you feel betrayed but you have to expect that she will say things like this....and I will bet you money that your other children will too. It doesn't mean they don't love you or that they even believe what they are writing, it sounds like they are just being typical teens.
If you don't want to try counseling, that is fine; however, counselors are like doctors, you will find some good ones and some crappy ones. You may have to shop around and you can't expect them to get her or for her to open up in just a few weeks. It will be a long-term commitment. Otherwise, it sounds like she's taking a bit to your church. Is there someone else there she can open up to? I'm glad that she is being so open with you, however, it's always great to have someone "non-mom" like to discuss things with.
You also say that you are wondering if her addiction is "genuine!?" Was she using drugs and alcohol at age 15 or below? She got drunk to the point where she was raped? Sounds like she needs help to me.....
I know it's really difficult, but really just try to focus on the positive here.
Lastly, have you considered discussing what you saw in the email with her? If it is bothering you enough that you were considering giving her up, then maybe you should
Jessie98_girl, I am glad you are willing to speak on behalf of a troubled teen. The world needs more people like you, however I am afraid you misunderstand me or assume too much sometimes. I doubt her "addiction", not that she has used drugs and alcohol to self medicate her depression. I am both very well educated and trained on the subjects of addiction, depression, and fostering children, and because of our family history I would be a fool not to question her motives. BTW I said she was raped because that is how I see it since she was drunk and doesn't know exactly how it all happened, however when she ran away from home she went and stayed with the same guy who "raped" her and ended up sleeping with him several more times. She did it because she foolishly believed she needed to commit herself to him since she had lost her virginity to him. I agree that counseling and therapy does take a long commitment to see results, I would like to have her talking to some one else besides myself. The problem with that is that she doesn't want to, we don't have insurance for her to go and finding the right person who will listen and advise her according to our faith is tricky. I am hoping she will open up more to our church leaders and lean in on the youth pastors more. We did talk to her about the email last night and she explained that she was having a bad day when she wrote it, even if she meant what she said. I told her why it offended me and explained that I expect her to disagree with our rules and to want to vent it to someone else but that gossiping about me with the extended family was very hurtful. I also told her about my concerns about manipulating us and she defended herself quite well. For now I will trust that her motives to progress are genuine and not deviant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stepka
That sounds like a blessing. I'm guessing the reason you're a "control freak" is because you had so little control over your life as a child and are making up for that now. I love what you're doing, and it sounds like you're doing just fine. This is a long slow journey--it doesn't happen overnight, but the fact that you love her and are concerned for her welfare may just be enough. If it's not, you'll have to be ready to let her go when she's old enough and don't take it too personally--your true reward is not on this earth. It sounds like your physical situation is for the best also--it may be as boring as all get out, but there are no temptations, and while that may not mean much now, perhaps as she matures, she will learn the value of that. The main thing here though, is don't take personally what she said privately to a cousin--it's her only outlet at this point. I know it's hard to not be hurt by it, but how much worse it would be if she were making plans to run away. Your mom sounds like a real piece of work.
When is she old enough is the question? That is what I probably should have titled this thread instead of is it too late. I think I have been misunderstood, I do not want to give up on her at all, I just don't want to be a doormat for yet another person in my family.
Last edited by noplacelikeWA; 07-01-2008 at 01:07 PM..
I don't profess to be a "control freak"... my extended family does. I am a fully devoted follower of Christ and He is in control of everything including whether or not my sister turns out ok. I am not trying to make my sister right, I don't expect progress either. What I want is mutual respect, I am not a doormat and God does not expect me to be either. If she accepts my help under the guise that she really is meaning to manipulate me than I am the fool. I am an instrument for God's work and I will minister to her as best as he equips me however I am also a steward of 4 other children and they need me too. Nobody can know the whole story in a public forum like this, there is too much family history to consider. My faith is why I carry on at all, and I am careful to remember that I am expected to pray and use good discernment in all things. I am as much a work in progress as she is and I trust the Lord will guide me to know what to do and when.
Jessie98_girl, I am glad you are willing to speak on behalf of a troubled teen. The world needs more people like you, however I am afraid you misunderstand me or assume too much sometimes. I doubt her "addiction", not that she has used drugs and alcohol to self medicate her depression. I am both very well educated and trained on the subjects of addiction, depression, and fostering children, and because of our family history I would be a fool not to question her motives. BTW I said she was raped because that is how I see it since she was drunk and doesn't know exactly how it all happened, however when she ran away from home she went and stayed with the same guy who "raped" her and ended up sleeping with him several more times. She did it because she foolishly believed she needed to commit herself to him since she had lost her virginity to him. I agree that counseling and therapy does take a long commitment to see results, I would like to have her talking to some one else besides myself. The problem with that is that she doesn't want to, we don't have insurance for her to go and finding the right person who will listen and advise her according to our faith is tricky. I am hoping she will open up more to our church leaders and lean in on the youth pastors more. We did talk to her about the email last night and she explained that she was having a bad day when she wrote it, even if she meant what she said. I told her why it offended me and explained that I expect her to disagree with our rules and to want to vent it to someone else but that gossiping about me with the extended family was very hurtful. I also told her about my concerns about manipulating us and she defended herself quite well. For now I will trust that her motives to progress are genuine and not deviant.
When is she old enough is the question? That is what I probably should have titled this thread instead of is it too late. I think I have been misunderstood, I do not want to give up on her at all, I just don't want to be a doormat for yet another person in my family.
Well, as someone as works with children and families, as well as addicts, I just see her at a turning point where if you continue to support her she has a fighting chance, otherwise, she does not. That's the honest truth. It sucks that that burden is on you, but it is at this point in time. Regarding whether or not she had an "addiction" or self-medicated really is a moot point. That is my point. The point is that regardless of "motives" etc, she is in need of help. Also, it is not atypical for people to identify with the rapist (e.g., go back to them like she did) or to blame themselves for the rape. Again, I would just have you try to think positively about the situation, as much as possible, and perhaps you also need to seek out guidance from your pastors, etc
Well, as someone as works with children and families, as well as addicts, I just see her at a turning point where if you continue to support her she has a fighting chance, otherwise, she does not. That's the honest truth. It sucks that that burden is on you, but it is at this point in time. Regarding whether or not she had an "addiction" or self-medicated really is a moot point. That is my point. The point is that regardless of "motives" etc, she is in need of help. Also, it is not atypical for people to identify with the rapist (e.g., go back to them like she did) or to blame themselves for the rape. Again, I would just have you try to think positively about the situation, as much as possible, and perhaps you also need to seek out guidance from your pastors, etc
I still think her kid needs more of a fighting chance than her sister. I believe that as a woman, your first obligation is to be a mother---and she's mentioned that her 13 year old is already feeling neglected.
I still think her kid needs more of a fighting chance than her sister. I believe that as a woman, your first obligation is to be a mother---and she's mentioned that her 13 year old is already feeling neglected.
Again, they are all FAMILY. She can make an effort to spend time with all of her children (and her sister), without having to give up on her sister or put the girl in foster care.
Again, they are all FAMILY. She can make an effort to spend time with all of her children (and her sister), without having to give up on her sister or put the girl in foster care.
But she's clearly stated that her daughter already feels neglected. I'm guessing she's a very busy woman. Clearly, there are priorities that need to be made here.
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