09-29-2011, 06:29 PM
Location: NW Penna.
1,758 posts, read
3,835,532 times
Reputation: 1880
Chains might be nice for a really icy day, or if you have a long commute on a rural road or such. In the city, you'll still be hampered by all the other drivers with no traction, so it's up to you whether to invest in them or not. I don't have chains for my current vehicles. I only needed them for traveling dirt roads in hilly southern WV, where nobody plowed. Haven't used them since.
Here's what my family's fleet wears, and roughly, it depends on the handling characteristics of your vehicle:
Crown Vic/ Grand Marquis / Town Car (RWD): These cars are really affected by snow and water on the road. And you will need GOOD rear tires, for certain. Good all-seasons that are specifically well-rated for snow and ice will suffice, or you can get snow tires. I used AquaTreds in 2003-2004, but those are discontinued now. I then tried Goodyear's TripleTred Assurance that was supposed to replace and be better than Aquatred, and those totally sucked. They were USELESS on ice. My current tires are Dunlop SP60 all seasons, cheap and they are killer good brand new, but I hear that they get slick after that. I'm going into winter #2 with them. We'll see. I asked a couple of State Troopers what PA puts on their Vics, and they said most are running all-season and some still have studded snows, but the studded tires are far too slick on dry pavement so AS with good traction is what they went back to, overall.
Buick LeSabre: Okay, even I have to say that the LeSabre beats the Vic for winter. Far more predictable and requires less skill and attention from the driver in winter. My parents have LeSabres, and they put just about any old all-season radials on them ("whatever's on sale"), and those cars go anyplace, anytime. They are really bland cars, but they are pretty sure-footed with just all season tires. And you have the awsome power of the V6.
Chevy Silverado 1/2 ton w/ 4WD, regular cab longbed: Trucks and SUVs, you want AT tread for winter, not M&S. Urban and rural guys here both seem to concur with that. The M&S tires are slicker in snow and useless on ice. ATs are better on ice, and they pack a little snow into the tread so you have snow on snow, and that grips the road better, and all the oil & gas people run ATs. On my 1/2 T, I use E-rated 10-ply Firestone ATs. With those, I almost never needed 4WD except to get started if I'd been sitting at a stoplight and was taking off on ice. The 10-plys have nice stiff sidewalls, and I love crisp handling with maximum predictability.
Chevy Duramax 2500 HD diesel 4WD regular cab longbed: Had to go to Goodyear TA Traction E-rated 10-ply commercial tires on this truck, to keep her stable on ice. I might have bought snows like Blizzak or Firestone Winterforce, but couldn't find a set of 4 anywhere when I needed them. This truck is heavy in the front end (diesel weighs more), and tends to plant the front and spin the empty longbed around in the blink of an eye, unless you have some really sticky snows or alternately, traction tires on there. I had Michelin M&S before, and the truck skated everyplace and scared the heck out of me. 4WD + M&S tires on ice was really foolish, b/c you'd just be sliding everywhere and can't steer or stop at all. With the traction tires, I dropped from 19 or 20 MPG highway to more like 14 MPG. My plan was to only run these tires as snows for 3-4 months per year and switch to less-sticky AT all seasons like Cooper or Mastercraft (also made by Cooper) AT for summer. But I scarcely have time to use this truck for anything for the next year or so, and I just left the Traction TAs on there. I am very happy with the handling of the Traction TAs on snow and ice. I scarcely need 4WD last winter, and I was running 120 miles of Interstate at 4AM before the plows had cleared. Nice tires for a heavy truck, but definitely hurt the fuel economy.
Firebird, V8, 1996 or so, RWD: A friend put Blizzaks on his and says he got everyplace that he needed to go.
Taurus V8 SHO: I have run Continental all-seasons on this car for several years without needing anything more.
09-30-2011, 02:11 AM
35,309 posts, read
52,315,210 times
Reputation: 30999
I think some are missing the main difference about winter tires vs all seasons, the winter tires are made with a different rubber compound that remains soft and plyable as temperatures plumet, at -7 degrees an all season tire is hard as a rock and provides less in the way off traction and stopping abilities than a dedicated snow tire that remains soft and grippy down to temps in the -20's, snow tire tread patterns are also designed to deal with slush and snow..
Some sobering realities.
.
All-season vs. winter tires
09-30-2011, 02:34 PM
393 posts, read
1,530,681 times
Reputation: 198
I've always used 'all season' but one year I decided to buy a high quality set of winter tires. One day on my way home from work,(about 5 inches of snow) I got stuck three times, even while backing into my driveway. I had to have the neighbors help push me out. I never got stuck one time with all season treads. I'll never buy winter tires again.
10-02-2011, 04:16 PM
35,309 posts, read
52,315,210 times
Reputation: 30999
Quote:
Originally Posted by
susquehannock
I've always used 'all season' but one year I decided to buy a high quality set of winter tires. One day on my way home from work,(about 5 inches of snow) I got stuck three times, even while backing into my driveway. I had to have the neighbors help push me out. I never got stuck one time with all season treads. I'll never buy winter tires again.
5 inch of snow shouldnt give a dedicated winter tire any problem.And theres no way an all season would out perform a snow tire in such conditions, I suspect theres another piece to your story you arent telling us.
But if you think all season tires are better than snow tires in snow
I'm not going to waste time convincing you otherwise.
10-02-2011, 05:28 PM
9,846 posts, read
22,679,821 times
Reputation: 7738
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jambo101
5 inch of snow shouldnt give a dedicated winter tire any problem.And theres no way an all season would out perform a snow tire in such conditions, I suspect theres another piece to your story you arent telling us.
Yes there is a large volume of testing out there dumped on tirerack.com and youtube showing the differences on winter conditions with all seasons versus winter tires. The all seasons don't come close. The all seasons are hard and don't wick away moisture and grab hold of the road in winter conditions. Modern winter tires are designed via their tire compounds and siping to spread out and grab the road, wick away moisture like a sponge and have the tread pattern to kick off accumulated winter precip within the contact patch as the tire rotates.
All seasons work okay in a light snow or the occasional winter weather. If you live up in the northern tier like I do and especially considering the predominance of tight 2 lane roads around here, a dedicated winter tire is the way to go. It can handle the slush, ice, snow, snow pack a lot better.
You can give me any winter surface you want with identical cars, one with winter tires, one with all seasons and I will outperform the all seasons, accelerating, braking, steering, accident avoidance, whatever you want to set up.
And one thing to consider is there are "winter tires" out there are old tech or off brands. A Hankook snow tire for instance is miles away from the abilities of a Bridgestone Blizzak or Michelin X Ice tire.
10-03-2011, 02:18 PM
393 posts, read
1,530,681 times
Reputation: 198
I stand by my post. Those winter tires were brand new and were pure garbage. I don't give a rat's keister whether anyone believes me or not. That was my exact experience and I'm sticking to it.
10-03-2011, 02:28 PM
9,846 posts, read
22,679,821 times
Reputation: 7738
Quote:
Originally Posted by
susquehannock
I stand by my post. Those winter tires were brand new and were pure garbage. I don't give a rat's keister whether anyone believes me or not. That was my exact experience and I'm sticking to it.
Well some "winter" tires are garbage. Like any product line, they have varying levels of abilities and quality.
What brand and model were they?
10-03-2011, 02:28 PM
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,402 posts, read
60,592,880 times
Reputation: 61018
Quote:
Originally Posted by
susquehannock
I stand by my post. Those winter tires were brand new and were pure garbage. I don't give a rat's keister whether anyone believes me or not. That was my exact experience and I'm sticking to it.
I had a set of Michelin winter tires years ago that were Ensign killers, absolutely no grip. The car itself was a 79 Grand Prix with the 5.1L 4 barrel. Too much of a touchy motor/gas pedal and light rear end on the car.
10-04-2011, 09:49 AM
1 posts, read
1,599 times
Reputation: 14
Winter tires are not like All-Season tires
Winter tires are not like All-Season tires. Winter tires have special rubber compounds designed to improve traction, handling and braking in all cold weather conditions, not just ice and snow.
10-05-2011, 02:52 PM
Location: Litchfield Park, AZ
132 posts, read
266,443 times
Reputation: 142
A lot of it depends on the type of terrain you drive on. If you live in an area with a lot of flat, straight roads, you could probably make do with all seasons with plenty of tread life left. However, I live in Pittsburgh (lots of steep hills, curvy, windy roads, and frozen bridges w/ black ice) and for this type of terrain I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND snow/winter tires. Not only do they have a more aggressive tread pattern for added traction, but they are also made of a softer silica compound that is designed to have much more grip in temps below freezing than harder-compound all-seasons. They have saved my bacon in many hairy winter driving situations that would've surely ended in an accident otherwise, and are cheaper than an insurance deductible.
See here
Winter Tires vs. All-Season Tires - Discount Tire
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People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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Winter tires are not like All-Season tires
