PA Turnpike Low on Money? Go Figure... (Penn: how much, new house)

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by wanneroo

It's a road you pay through the nose for and it's one of the most outdated 4 lane highways in the USA.

That's being changed, segment by segment.


MM 70.4 before




MM 70.4 after




MM 74.3 before




MM 74.3 after




Shur loox outdated 2 me!

What was once an 82' right-of-way with two 12' exterior shoulders, four 12' travel lanes, and two 4' interior shoulders separated by a 2' median barrier has now become a 122' right-of-way with two 12' exterior shoulders, six 12' travel lanes, and two 12' interior shoulders separated by a 2' median barrier. Furthermore, the thickness of the roadbed has almost doubled, which means that only the top layer of Superpave asphalt -- the "wear layer," so to speak -- will occasionally need to be milled and relaid for at least the next 50 years.

If you cannot see the difference in the "before" and "after" photos, then your eyes are not fit for driving in the first place, and, therefore, the condition of any part of the Turnpike should not even be of your concern.

[PeeAye Native]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

....and again most of your toll dollars do not go to the turnpike.

Between 2008 and 2009 the payments exceed 2 billion dollars, roughly speaking that's more than half a billion than they collected in tolls and that's before we get into their own operating expenses.

The reason that came into being was essentially the opposite of what is happening now was occuring, the turnpike was generating more cash than they were spending.

One joke I heard back then was they couldn't create or fill patronage positions fast enough to use up all the cash that had accumulated. And they wanted to do that before someone took the excess away from them.

Anyway, I'm not entirely clear how true the above statements were, but that is what some people who'd know used to say.

[fisheye]

Guntella,

Are those new bridges on the East/West Turnpike? I remember trucking with several bridges that were too low for a big truck to go on the shoulder while going underneath. I always wondered why the PTC did not replace those old outdated bridges.

Down South many states rebuilt their bridges wider and higher than the old bridges. I know that we have many deficient bridges in our state. It cost more to make the new bridges higher and wider - so I would presume there is pressure to replace closer to the original designs (especially with all the financial pressure).

Just out of curiosity; how many deficient bridges does our Turnpike have.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

What was once an 82' right-of-way with two 12' exterior shoulders, four 12' travel lanes, and two 4' interior shoulders separated by a 2' median barrier has now become a 122' right-of-way with two 12' exterior shoulders, six 12' travel lanes, and two 12' interior shoulders separated by a 2' median barrier. Furthermore, the thickness of the roadbed has almost doubled, which means that only the top layer of Superpave asphalt -- the "wear layer," so to speak -- will occasionally need to be milled and relaid for at least the next 50 years.

If you cannot see the difference in the "before" and "after" photos, then your eyes are not fit for driving in the first place, and, therefore, the condition of any part of the Turnpike should not even be of your concern.

aside from the fact that the turnpike is the first road of its kind (the schuylkill's predicament is also because the state built it before the fed's began printing money for the interstate system), this highlights an interesting aspect of rendell...while he irresponsibly saddled the ptc with debt in hopes they'd be spreading the toll pain over two roads (I80) he also improved the ptc such that it's one of the few roads that have really improved over the years. while the morons in dc argue and the state is broke, the ptc is adding interchanged and fixing the road.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by fisheye

Guntella,

Are those new bridges on the East/West Turnpike? I remember trucking with several bridges that were too low for a big truck to go on the shoulder while going underneath. I always wondered why the PTC did not replace those old outdated bridges.

Down South many states rebuilt their bridges wider and higher than the old bridges. I know that we have many deficient bridges in our state. It cost more to make the new bridges higher and wider - so I would presume there is pressure to replace closer to the original designs (especially with all the financial pressure).

Just out of curiosity; how many deficient bridges does our Turnpike have.

The "before" and "after" photos come from the Pennsylvania Turnpike between the Irwin (Exit 67) and New Stanton (Exit 75) interchanges. The Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission is in the process of reconstructing and six-laning the Turnpike segment by segment. This involves the reconstruction of all overpasses.

Most of the work to date has been done in western and central Pennsylvania, where the roadbed was deteriorating the fastest. Most segments between the Carnberry interchange (Exit 28) and the Allegheny Mountain Tunnel (MM 124) have been reconstructed, or are currently being reconstructed. Only three segments remain to be reconstructed: between the Beaver Valley (Exit 10) and Cranberry (Exit 28) interchanges, between the Butler Valley (Exit 39) and Irwin (Exit 67) interchanges, and between the Westmoreland/Somerset County line (MM 99) and the Somerset interchange (Exit 110).

Central Pennsylvania has seen more reconstruction as well, primarily east of the Blue Mountain Tunnels (MM 199). Within the next few years, the Turnpike between the Blue Mountain (Exit 201) and Carlisle (Exit 226) interchanges will be reconstructed and six-laned, and work will then begin between the Carlisle interchange (Exit 226) and the new Susquehanna River Bridges (Exit 245).

Most of the reconstruction being done in eastern Pennsylvania is in the Philadelphia area, from a new E-Z Pass interchange (Exit 319) east to the New Jersey state line (MM 359). The E-Z Pass interchange is currently under construction, and soon the segment from there (Exit 319) to the Valley Forge (Exit 326) interchange will be reconstructed and six-laned. It's already been six-laned for most of its length between the Valley Forge (Exit 326) and Bensalem (Exit 351) interchanges. They're also realigning I-95 north of Philadelphia along the last two miles of the Turnpike into New Jersey, and this involves the construction of a direct, elaborate, high-speed interchange.

The only segment of the Turnpike that will not be reconstructed this decade is the segment between the Harrisburg East (Exit 247) and Downingtown (Exit 312) interchanges. That segment is beginning to show its age, but the roadbed is still in acceptable condition, so it's not a priority right now. It will be the last segment to be reconstructed and six-laned.

[Ohiogirl81]

To me, the most frightening part of the turnpike -- and most wanting of improvement -- is between Somerset and Breezewood (exits 110 and 160-ish), and especially right around the Bedford exit. Some of it has been improved, but most of it is narrow, winding and bumpy. On a dark night it's impossible to find the Bedford exit, and heaven help you if there's a truck on your bumper while heading down the hills in either direction near the Midway rest stop.

I didn't see that section on your list, Gnutella? Or did I miss it?

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

To me, the most frightening part of the turnpike -- and most wanting of improvement -- is between Somerset and Breezewood (exits 110 and 160-ish), and especially right around the Bedford exit. Some of it has been improved, but most of it is narrow, winding and bumpy. On a dark night it's impossible to find the Bedford exit, and heaven help you if there's a truck on your bumper while heading down the hills in either direction near the Midway rest stop.

I didn't see that section on your list, Gnutella? Or did I miss it?

They're not doing much with that part until they figure out what they're going to do about the Allegheny Mountain Tunnel. They want to bypass the existing tubes to the north slightly, and they're doing design studies on two potential new alignments. Each new alignment has been proposed both with a new set of tubes and with a standard mountain pass.

Hunters, environmentalists and local residents all seem to prefer one specific alignment with a new set of tubes. The tubes would be more expensive, but they would also lessen the environmental impact and allow the realigned segment to be built at a lower elevation, meaning that the grade of the highway to the east of the tunnels wouldn't be as steep.

Once they figure out what to do about the tunnel, then they'll get to work reconstructing and six-laning segments near the Bedford (Exit 146) and Breezewood (Exit 161) interchanges. Expect the realigned segment to be built with six lanes regardless of whether they build a new tunnel or a mountain pass. If they build a new tunnel, then the tubes would be bored wider to fit three lanes each. This would allow the entire Turnpike from the Ohio state line (MM 0) to the Breezewood interchange (Exit 161) to eventually be reconstructed and six-laned.

Unfortunately, I don't think the segment between the Breezewood interchange (Exit 161) and the Blue Mountain Tunnel (MM 199) will ever be six-laned due to the three tunnels along it, and enlarging and/or replacing them all would be very expensive. (One tunnel is one thing, but three tunnels is another.) But that's just a 38-mile segment of the 359-mile Turnpike, and it's the most lightly-traveled segment as well, so it probably doesn't even need to be six-laned.

[BirchBarlow]

Why not just improve the road to modern standards and make it an interstate? Why do we have to pay an arm and a leg for the privilege of driving on a road that's extremely substandard to begin with while people in other states pay less and drive on better highways? Stinks of corruption to me.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by BirchBarlow

Why not just improve the road to modern standards and make it an interstate? Why do we have to pay an arm and a leg for the privilege of driving on a road that's extremely substandard to begin with while people in other states pay less and drive on better highways? Stinks of corruption to me.

Read all my ****ing posts in this topic and figure it out. You can start by scrolling to the top of the page.

By the way, it's signed as an Interstate for its entire length.

[fisheye]

Guntella,

One last quick question on the subject of the new bridges: What is the minimum height with the new designs? In the two pictures you posted; one new bridge looks like the clearance is considerably higher than the old bridge it replaces. In the other picture; the new bridge looks like the clearance on the left side of the picture is about the same as the old bridge. I know that pictures can be deceiving.

The only reason that I ask is because many of our Southern states seem to have adopted a 15 to 18 foot clearance as the standard. I know that 13 foot 6 inches is the legal maximum height for truckers (without special permits). I have always felt that higher is better - there is always the contractor that forgot to measure or thought that they would clear. Also; our equipment seems to always get bigger.