Is Harrisburg and Chester worst City in PA (Erie: garage, area)

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by Clint.

That's usually about all there is to it. Nothing especially exceptional or bad about any of those places; that's just generally what happens where, for any number of reasons that usually have nothing to do with the people who actually live in work in those places, the economy bottoms out. No town starts off particularly depressed, but once it goes down that road it's a difficult cycle to stop.

Then explain Johnstown, Altoona, and Erie (historically some of the largest cities in the state) which have horrible post-industrial economies, and virtually no crime to speak of.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by alleghenyangel

Then explain Johnstown, Altoona, and Erie (historically some of the largest cities in the state) which have horrible post-industrial economies, and virtually no crime to speak of.

As I said in another recent thread, the difference is that those cities are predominantly white. Erie is about 75% white. Johnstown is even whiter (84%), and Altoona whiter still (94%). Within Pennsylvania, the murder rate is much, much higher in the Black (and to a lesser degree Latino) communities than white communities - even poor white communities - because our state doesn't really have white gang issues since the power of the various ethnic mafias has died down. Even in the most diverse, Erie, the black population (20%) is small enough the city has no majority black neighborhoods, and whites, Latinos, and Asians live interspersed.

[pman]

Originally Posted by eschaton

As I said in another recent thread, the difference is that those cities are predominantly white. Erie is about 75% white. Johnstown is even whiter (84%), and Altoona whiter still (94%). Within Pennsylvania, the murder rate is much, much higher in the Black (and to a lesser degree Latino) communities than white communities - even poor white communities - because our state doesn't really have white gang issues since the power of the various ethnic mafias has died down. Even in the most diverse, Erie, the black population (20%) is small enough the city has no majority black neighborhoods, and whites, Latinos, and Asians live interspersed.

whats crazy is that johnstown is more heavily depopulated than chester. johnstown ia less than a third of its peak pop (1930) while chester is halg its peak. (1960). chester is also located on the east coast close to major drug markets and is completely corrupt. idk about chester but philly doesnt have a particular problem with gangs.altoona strikes me as less depressed than either johnstown or chester.not to take away from ur points. still if theres one place that ive been that looks more depressed than johnstown its chester.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by pman

whats crazy is that johnstown is more heavily depopulated than chester. johnstown ia less than a third of its peak pop (1930) while chester is halg its peak. (1960). chester is also located on the east coast close to major drug markets and is completely corrupt. idk about chester but philly doesnt have a particular problem with gangs.altoona strikes me as less depressed than either johnstown or chester.not to take away from ur points. still if theres one place that ive been that looks more depressed than johnstown its chester.

Keep in mind that cities which decline due to racial transformation tend to be a lot more empty than those which decline due to neglect like Johnstown. This is because in a place like Johnstown, much of the population decline is due to dropping family size - houses which held large families may today hold only one or two elderly people. In contrast, black households were the same size or larger than the white households they replaced, meaning most of the decline in racially transformed cities was due to a decline in the number of households.

[pman]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Keep in mind that cities which decline due to racial transformation tend to be a lot more empty than those which decline due to neglect like Johnstown. This is because in a place like Johnstown, much of the population decline is due to dropping family size - houses which held large families may today hold only one or two elderly people. In contrast, black households were the same size or larger than the white households they replaced, meaning most of the decline in racially transformed cities was due to a decline in the number of households.

there are boarded up houses, vacant lots, etc in johnstown so I'd guess it's more than a decline in family size but also the number of families and the people who live there. also note the years that each place hit peak population, johnstown was in decline three decades earlier. chester is still shrinking fast and it's possible it will "catch up" to johnstown. the one person we bumped into on the streets of johnstown was in a shelter there and would have liked nothing more than to get out of town. in chester you can still live there and work somewhere nearby I guess since it's near other employment centers. perhaps they were more effective at building public housing to solidify population, or perhaps its because johnstown doesn't have a widener university. chester certainly has a significant racial components but make no mistake, there was an economic collapse...and there's no black middle class in chester whatsoever. the difference between it and braddock is likely that the philadelphia region offered more employment opportunities as a whole over the years whereas in braddock people simply left the region entirely. chester is only 20 minutes on 95 from Philadelphia, johnstown has no decent highway connection and train service is equally terrible. (good highway access is also a must for the drug distribution business)

[Clint.]

Originally Posted by pman

johnstown has no decent highway connection and train service is equally terrible. (good highway access is also a must for the drug distribution business)

Yeah, the illicit drug trade seems to go hand in hand with other crime. Whether it's fighting over territory, deals gone bad, destitute addicts stealing to trying to get money to buy more drugs, etc. there is a marked increase in crime that would probably otherwise not occur.

Do folks out in the "country" still make crystal meth? I remember a lot of talk about it when I lived near Meadville, but that was 10 years ago.

[auntieannie68]

ne pa especially wilkes barre area has plenty of white run in home meth labs

[DarkWolf]

While the Predominantly white towns and cities don't have Violent crime they usually have high petty crime rates tied to drugs usually meth.... Thats how it is in Rural New Jersey and New York....theres also a higher drinking related crimes in these towns and cities....you won't see shootings but you'll see plenty of fights and drunken related accidents.

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by eschaton

As I said in another recent thread, the difference is that those cities are predominantly white. Erie is about 75% white. Johnstown is even whiter (84%), and Altoona whiter still (94%). Within Pennsylvania, the murder rate is much, much higher in the Black (and to a lesser degree Latino) communities than white communities - even poor white communities - because our state doesn't really have white gang issues since the power of the various ethnic mafias has died down. Even in the most diverse, Erie, the black population (20%) is small enough the city has no majority black neighborhoods, and whites, Latinos, and Asians live interspersed.

While this is true for the most part, there are some neighborhoods in the 16507 and 16503 zip codes of Erie that are majority black. I only know this because I attended a local lecture about poverty and race and the speaker broke down the zip codes into smaller segments. It is interesting to note that Erie has a significant amount of refugees so some of the diversity can be attributed to immigrants. Here is an interesting article about refugees in Erie:

Refugees in Erie up nearly 800 percent | GoErie.com/Erie Times-News

[Ohiogirl81]

Great article. Erie has an extremely active International Institute, which is an official refugee resettlement agency and has a fascinating history.