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Its hard to take you seriously.....when you continue to repeat your distorted gibberish.
1.) There is nothing funny about it, as I stated, I have tried alternative payment methods and it didn't have a material effect on my spending habits. I have plenty of money and taking out an additional few hundred doesn't even register.
2.) As I've stated numerous times, the primary reason I think financing purchases is bad is because it makes the person feel (artificially) more wealthy than they really are. That is because instead of the money coming out of their bank its mentally going "off-balance sheet". This erroneous sense of wealth effects decisions about future purchases.
3.) I never suggest that people will spend more on the same car if they finance instead of pay cash. Never. I did suggest that they will be more inclined to purchase a more expensive car than they would otherwise though.
Lastly, there is the epistemological problem I've brought up numerous times which you have naturally ignored. Namely, if you know that some statistic is true, for example when people do X, then do Y 80% of the time, you have no way of knowing prima facia whether you're in the 80% group or the 20% group. That is something you have to determine and its not something that can be determine by mere reflection, people have notoriously poor abilities to gauge their own psychological weaknesses. I suggest that its far safer as a general rule to assume you're in the 80% than in the 20%, assuming otherwise will lead to you being suckered numerous times. Nobody is free from cognitive biases, emotional biases, etc, though some people are more susceptible to some than others.
you said that you should pay cash for a car, then you told me i'm getting suckered by the dealer if i get a 0%-3% auto loan. you said the dealer is rolling in the interest rate into the price of the car. so, are you not saying that i paid more for the same car because i financed it? or are you trying to say that, had i been suckered by the dealer into paying a higher price for the car because of a promo rate...in that case i paid more?
i'm asking honestly. because i've told you, i shopped the car based on invoice price, and i went to the dealer that would give me the best price. i then chose to finance it because i got a great finance deal. but when i told that, you sarcastically told me i'm superhuman.
so, are you telling me that, even though i went into my car hunt knowing i could afford $x and didn't exceed that...i can't truly know if i would have paid less for a vehicle unless i paid cash? of course, that's hogwash, because...i would have purchased this vehicle with cash had the financing option i found not been available.
i'd agree that it's safe to assume one is susceptible if statistically speaking, most are. but there's mechanisms one can put in place to ensure they don't succomb to those gimmicks. one of the strongest mechanisms is to set a budget and stick to it. if i budget $300/month to indulge in eating out...one month i may eat two meals at peter luger's, the next month i might eat out a bunch of times at numerous places. my method of payment doesn't effect my spending, because i have a predertermined number i am willing to spend. now, i know what your logic is about financing and spending more on a car. people go in and think...$300/month...i could get the ipod connection kit for only $302/month...hmmmm...yeah! sign me up! cause it's only $2 more per month. but i would not have purchased the car i chose if i couldn't get it for invoice or less. mostly, because i'm slightly pyschotic about not paying more than is necessary for something. does that mean i don't waste some money on a feature i may not "need", but i want? sure...but i made that decision prior to and exclusive from choosing my payment method. so, because of the way i manage my spending...yes, i know i'm not in the "norm" group of people who overspend because of use of credit/debit/financing/etc.
i also don't feel wealthier because i have a car loan. i fell less wealthy, because that obligation counts against my net worth. and i visually see that it's subtracted from my total, every time i log into mint.com and look at total assests and total obligations. i guess you could call me a debtor...sure. my student loan debt is at 1.625% fixed interest. my mortgage is at 3.875% interest, 30 year fixed. and my car loan is 1.9%, financed through my credit union. yes, i'm carrying debt. but i can pay off my car loan at anytime, which in my mind is the only "bad" debt i'm carrying. but, the money i would have used to pay for my car is sitting in a CD that is expiring soon, earning 4.9% interest. my emergency fund is sitting in laddered CDs, with the lowest earning 1.5% interest. i've also got investments with YTD returns of 9%. though yes, those are higher risk...but not as high risk as you'd expect when you look at the diversification. i'm quite happy with my financial situation. and yes, that includes my utilization of 0% best buy promotion to buy my price-matched television, and my use of no-fee credit card transfers to 0% cards to pay off some of my student loan debt that was higher cost quicker. but....the credit card game is dangerous. i only did it because i had an extremely stable job and plenty of savings built up, plus it was back when they charged no fee for a transfer. that's long gone now with 3-5% fees, and no caps on them.
you said that you should pay cash for a car, then you told me i'm getting suckered by the dealer if i get a 0%-3% auto loan. you said the dealer is rolling in the interest rate into the price of the car.
Yep I said you should pay cash for a car and my reason for that claim can be found in my previous post. In terms of the interest rate, I was talking about promotional rates offered by dealers, in this case you're not getting any deal you're just getting front loaded interest.
You are still focused on whether or not you'd pay the same for some particular car which is to say for the millionth time...not something I every suggested. Reread my previous post and get back to me.
And yes, you're a debtor and you'll continue to distort your finances in this fashion and become deeper and deeper entrenched in the rat race.
No skin off my bones, if it weren't for folks like you I might actually have to work hard!
Yep I said you should pay cash for a car and my reason for that claim can be found in my previous post. In terms of the interest rate, I was talking about promotional rates offered by dealers, in this case you're not getting any deal you're just getting front loaded interest.
You are still focused on whether or not you'd pay the same for some particular car which is to say for the millionth time...not something I every suggested. Reread my previous post and get back to me.
And yes, you're a debtor and you'll continue to distort your finances in this fashion and become deeper and deeper entrenched in the rat race.
No skin off my bones, if it weren't for folks like you I might actually have to work hard!
i'm only a debtor if the interest rate is low enough that i can make the money work harder for me elsewhere. you should take a look at the balance sheet of every successful company in america, including small businesses. see how many of them got where they are without using debt wisely.
as for the car...yes...you told me i would pay more for my car. maybe it's because you assumed i was talking about the dealer promo rate. maybe i misunderstood you, maybe you misunderstood me. but you're still criticizing my logic. fact is, i did not pay more for more car because i financed it. it may cost more in the long term (this gets into present value of money along with investment income), but the money i held on to is earning a higher rate of return than the cost of financing the car. in my situation, it makes no sense for me to take that money out of the investments i have and put it on the car. but, even if i do a dealer promo rate..i'm still not paying more than invoice for the car. this happens. people do it all the time. i know numerous people who have done 0% financing through the car company, and still got invoice from the dealer. the dealer is making money off the car, the financing is Honda Financing...the dealer isn't financing the vehicle for you. the corporation is. dealer doesn't care (in most cases)
my finances aren't distorted and i'll be retiring early.
I see a lot of people pay with check cards and I can't figure out why'd you want to do it unless you just weren't able to get a credit card.
Balance your checkbook with a bunch of little charges is a pain, the liability protection isn't nearly as good as a credit card and you can get rewards with the credit card.
Do people still balance their checkbooks?
I use mine because I don't have a credit card and it's safer than carrying cash. Most places won't take checks for large purchases.
It would suggest a working-class background of modest means, that is, parents were working class but with higher skill jobs. But due to its low price its a popular beer on more middle-class/upper class colleges as well (CMU, U of Penn, etc).
Hmmm... My father was an executive at Chase, and my mom worked at Merril Lynch on wallstreet until leaving to start her own business. I grew up in a upperclass town and went to Princeton U for a year before dropping out and rejoining a public college in NJ.
I see a lot of people pay with check cards and I can't figure out why'd you want to do it unless you just weren't able to get a credit card.
Balance your checkbook with a bunch of little charges is a pain, the liability protection isn't nearly as good as a credit card and you can get rewards with the credit card.
Do people still balance their checkbooks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
Its hard to take you seriously.....when you continue to repeat your distorted gibberish.
1.) There is nothing funny about it, as I stated, I have tried alternative payment methods and it didn't have a material effect on my spending habits. I have plenty of money and taking out an additional few hundred doesn't even register.
2.) As I've stated numerous times, the primary reason I think financing purchases is bad is because it makes the person feel (artificially) more wealthy than they really are. That is because instead of the money coming out of their bank its mentally going "off-balance sheet". This erroneous sense of wealth effects decisions about future purchases.
3.) I never suggest that people will spend more on the same car if they finance instead of pay cash. Never. I did suggest that they will be more inclined to purchase a more expensive car than they would otherwise though.
Lastly, there is the epistemological problem I've brought up numerous times which you have naturally ignored. Namely, if you know that some statistic is true, for example when people do X, then do Y 80% of the time, you have no way of knowing prima facia whether you're in the 80% group or the 20% group. That is something you have to determine and its not something that can be determine by mere reflection, people have notoriously poor abilities to gauge their own psychological weaknesses. I suggest that its far safer as a general rule to assume you're in the 80% than in the 20%, assuming otherwise will lead to you being suckered numerous times. Nobody is free from cognitive biases, emotional biases, etc, though some people are more susceptible to some than others.
Hmmm.... does anyone else think this guy is talking out of both sides of his mouth?
Hmmm.... does anyone else think this guy is talking out of both sides of his mouth?
The underlined part does make it seem like it... but he's really not.
Using a credit card for convenience is different than using it for financing. He's really asking why people use check cards for convenience rather than credit cards, given that credit cards have a lot more benefits and protection.
Hmmm.... does anyone else think this guy is talking out of both sides of his mouth?
I suppose if someone hasn't bothered to read what I've said.... If someone starts to run a balance then credit card usage becomes like other longer-term debt, on the other hand if you pay off the balance each month its not much different than using a check-card. The same amount of money is coming out of your account each month.
Hmmm... My father was an executive at Chase, and my mom worked at Merril Lynch on wallstreet until leaving to start her own business. I grew up in a upperclass town and went to Princeton U for a year before dropping out and rejoining a public college in NJ.
Sure, as I said Yuengling is popular on college campuses in that region (I drunk it all the time when I was in PA) and people usually don't change the sorts of beer they drink over-night.
you should take a look at the balance sheet of every successful company in america, including small businesses. see how many of them got where they are without using debt wisely.
Are you trying to assertion something here because I have no idea what you are asserting. I should take a look at balance sheet of every successful company in America? Huh!? Using debt wisely? Is that using your debtor vision of debt?
If you think there is some uniform approach to dealing with debt in the business world you're sadly mistaken...Debt is great if the goal is to enrich bankers, not so great when the goal is to generate large profits.
I've already made my position on the car clear yet you still distort it. Oh well. You're going to retire early? Yeah I hear that a lot....me? I'll retire when I'm dead...it sounds dreadfully boring. Good luck!
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