Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Eh, Lacoste is a brand past its time, it may be a step up from Polo Ralph Lauren, but it doesn't have that American mainstay momentum to keep it going even if its middle of the road (Polo, Tommy Hilfiger, Calvin Klein). So this may be a circumstance in which a closure is not necessarily a symptom of a poor market.
Beyond that, the only true higher-end national retailers left in Philadelphia are Theory, Vince, and Rag & Bone, and if they close, eek...
I am still shocked Zara left CC, that I don't understand...The Gallery has a few decent options (Nike, Kate Spade), but its a C+ from a retail perspective, entertainment and food options are solid. Adding more experiential elements like a Lego World, American Girl store or Crayola World would certainly help get more people in (and likely a better crowd). Any hopes for a true shopping destination are gone.
Franklin Mills is kinda ghetto (IMO).
Philadelphia leadership is bad, and while struggling retail has other facets, bad leadership doesn't help either.
Sidenote, someone in the skyscraper group said they wish for a Restoration Hardware flagship with the restaurant (found in NYC and Chicago) to open at 15th & Walnut in the old LA Fitness space. That would be amazing, but likely won't happen either.
I thought a hotel was in the works at the old JCPenney space? I would like to see a high-end hotel open in that area, it can definitely support it. It works in Tysons, it will work in KoP.
I still have a feeling Saks may relocate one day. I think KoP will enter another retail boom period once Covid dies down, similar to what happened in 2016 when the new wing opened.
My other wish for KoP is to somehow integrate the Village at Valley Forge with the mall, but that would require burying, dismantling or rerouting highways, so not in our lifetime.
I will agree to disagree on Lacoste. It is still considered a premium brand carried in Bloomingdales and Nordstrom. And I would say is a step above say "Kate Spade" because it is not widely discounted. It gives me Marc Jacob vibes with its level of premium. (throwing that out there).
It has struggled a bit, like many traditional brick and mortar companies. It is very traditional with a European prep flair which currently I guess is not trending with fashion, but I would not say it is not an elevated brand.
I will say though it is just an unfortunate sign of the struggles of the Philadelphia retail market. The city is just forging retail left and right.
And I agree, when Zara closed in Center City I was confident maybe they would relocate to the "New Gallery" but that seems unlikely.
When Cole Haan closed, I actually was a little bit in shock. Because the Cole Haan on Walnut st was usually always busy. (Same with Zara on Walnut).
The "New Gallery" has gotten to be a teenager hangout spot of rowdyness and therefore an unpleasant experience. Unfortunately.
Maybe Machriech has something up their sleeves, but as of now, it is subpar.
The road system is too complex for any type of connection or $$ invested with KOP Mall and the Village.
I rather see money invested in other SEPTA projects over the NHSL extension to King of Prussia, but if it is, I imagine some additional more dense development will follow.
Honestly for that area, what would be the biggest win is a total reinvestment of Norristown, which is fairly close to King of Prussia and actually has an easier connection with the mall than the Village along that stretch of 202.
But those are big dreams and not happening within the next year or two.
Im noticing there has been a decrease in variety of inexpensive quick food options in center city since 2019..
The McDonalds on South Broad St north of Washington Ave closed.
That means paired with the closing of the Walnut St. McDonalds... there will be no McDonalds in the Greater Center City area whatsoever.
I am kind of shocked about that to be honest....
NYC has tons of McDonalds and while I am not a McDonalds fan persay, they do provide a cheap snack/meal alternative when in need on the go...
The Wendys on Walnut closed...
I just am finding the cheap on the go food service industry in Philadelphia is kind of void in Center City. I know there are bodegas in the non center city neighborhoods that offer deli type foods at a low cost, but they do not really exist in Center City.
Interesting.
I guess Wawa and Dunkin Donuts are really the only alternative?
But if you are on the go and what something fast and under $10 in Center City the options keep closing down... Not sure how I feel about that?
Rosies closed, which was the only $1 pizza spot in Center City.. and a few other delis have closed this year as well.
NYC also has tons of $1 slice pizza joints (nearly on every corner) which Philadelphia does not have...
The Liberty Place food court is really the only option at the moment... But it is not easily accessible and not a quick walk to the entire center city area.
I guess the food carts were also the alternative as the city had tons... but even they are a rare sight compared to what they use to be.
So yea, Center City is shedding its inexpensive quick food offerings one by one.
I do not think this is a good thing to be honest.
I love nice and healthy food and a nice restaurant, but I also do not want to spend $20 every time to go eat and I like variety of choices when choosing a meal.
Last edited by rowhomecity; 03-16-2021 at 10:02 AM..
Im noticing there has been a decrease in variety of inexpensive quick food options in center city since 2019..
The McDonalds on South Broad St north of Washington Ave closed.
That means paired with the closing of the Walnut St. McDonalds... there will be no McDonalds in the Greater Center City area whatsoever.
I am kind of shocked about that to be honest....
NYC has tons of McDonalds and while I am not a McDonalds fan persay, they do provide a cheap snack/meal alternative when in need on the go...
NYC also has tons of $1 slice pizza joints which Philadelphia does not have...
Interesting.
I guess Wawa is our alternative?
But if you are on the go and what something fast and under $10 in Center City the options keep closing down... Not sure how I feel about that?
Rosies closed the only $1 pizza spot in Center City.. and a few other delis have closed this year as well.
The Liberty Place food court is really the only option at the moment... the gallery food court as well I guess. But they really are concentrated and not walkable to the entire center city area.
I like McDonald's occasionally, I didn't like any of the ones in Center City. It honestly brings me joy seeing that Wendy's getting torn down at 11th and walnut. Fast food might be getting killed off, but don't pretend their isn't a million lunch places. Maybe not a dollar menu, but there is still shake shack, burgerfi, 5 guys, and bareburger. None the less the local places around that aren't chains.
I will say that the Micky D's on South Broad has architectural value, and I wonder how many vintage ones are left with the arches like that. The parking lot attached to it is absolutely terrible use of land at a prime location.
I am going to give it another month or two, but one thing I cannot wait to do is eat a $5 lunch from a Halal cart.
Im noticing there has been a decrease in variety of inexpensive quick food options in center city since 2019..
The McDonalds on South Broad St north of Washington Ave closed.
That means paired with the closing of the Walnut St. McDonalds... there will be no McDonalds in the Greater Center City area whatsoever.
I am kind of shocked about that to be honest....
NYC has tons of McDonalds and while I am not a McDonalds fan persay, they do provide a cheap snack/meal alternative when in need on the go...
The Wendys on Walnut closed...
I just am finding the cheap on the go food service industry in Philadelphia is kind of void in Center City. I know there are bodegas in the non center city neighborhoods that offer deli type foods at a low cost, but they do not really exist in Center City.
Interesting.
I guess Wawa and Dunkin Donuts are really the only alternative?
But if you are on the go and what something fast and under $10 in Center City the options keep closing down... Not sure how I feel about that?
Rosies closed, which was the only $1 pizza spot in Center City.. and a few other delis have closed this year as well.
NYC also has tons of $1 slice pizza joints (nearly on every corner) which Philadelphia does not have...
The Liberty Place food court is really the only option at the moment... But it is not easily accessible and not a quick walk to the entire center city area.
I guess the food carts were also the alternative as the city had tons... but even they are a rare sight compared to what they use to be.
So yea, Center City is shedding its inexpensive quick food offerings one by one.
I do not think this is a good thing to be honest.
I love nice and healthy food and a nice restaurant, but I also do not want to spend $20 every time to go eat and I like variety of choices when choosing a meal.
Eh, not disappointed at all. And as dirtypirate said, there are still tonssss of food options (fast casual) throughout Center City. I don't see any problem with the change (IMO).
I am happy DIG (NYC chain) opened their first Philadelphia location on Chestnut Street. I will happily take those places over Wendys & McDonalds.
Also, I am bit shocked why you would find this sad? You are always on board for high-end retail, luxury hotels, shopping, etc. entering Philadelphia, yet sad that Wendy's & McDonalds are closing?
I like McDonald's occasionally, I didn't like any of the ones in Center City. It honestly brings me joy seeing that Wendy's getting torn down at 11th and walnut. Fast food might be getting killed off, but don't pretend their isn't a million lunch places. Maybe not a dollar menu, but there is still shake shack, burgerfi, 5 guys, and bareburger. None the less the local places around that aren't chains.
I will say that the Micky D's on South Broad has architectural value, and I wonder how many vintage ones are left with the arches like that. The parking lot attached to it is absolutely terrible use of land at a prime location.
I am going to give it another month or two, but one thing I cannot wait to do is eat a $5 lunch from a Halal cart.
Actually, that McDonald's is not an original 1950s/1960s outlet but a re-creation of that original style built in the 1990s. But given that, I'm surprised it's closed too.
There remain two Mickey D's on the Greater Center City fringe: Broad Street and Girard Avenue and Girard Avenue between Front Street and Frankford Avenue. And there's still a Wendy's in the 1500 block of Chestnut — like the former one on Walnut, down the block from a Five Guys (wait, is the one on Walnut still open?).
I'd take Five Guys over McDonald's any day, but if you only have $2 in your pocket and have a hankering for a burger, guess who offers those. (Burger King has a dollar menu too, and there's one of those at 8th and Market still.)
There's nothing wrong with wanting both high-end stores and cheap ones. First, not everyone's rich, and second, sometimes you don't want to drop lots of coin on something if you do have enough money.
But you may have inadvertently put your finger on the reason for the fast-food burger joints' demise (aside from rising rents and disasters occurring next door). Again, I'd take a platter from one of those Halal carts over a fast-food burger any time.
Eh, not disappointed at all. And as dirtypirate said, there are still tonssss of food options (fast casual) throughout Center City. I don't see any problem with the change (IMO).
I am happy DIG (NYC chain) opened their first Philadelphia location on Chestnut Street. I will happily take those places over Wendys & McDonalds.
Also, I am bit shocked why you would find this sad? You are always on board for high-end retail, luxury hotels, shopping, etc. entering Philadelphia, yet sad that Wendy's & McDonalds are closing?
Eh... not sad per say. I use this as an example to get a cheap on the go warm "snack" or maybe a quick lunch and not a full meal per say...
I guess you can say my go to fast/cheap lunches when offices were open were the halal carts around Philadelphia and with offices being closed many of them are not operating.
As well as other food carts in the city offering other choices.
I love DIG, Sweetgreen, Cava, Honeygrow, etc.... They are great. Not too expensive really. But eh, I rather not spend $15 on a salad everyday. (my last order was $17 at sweet green. lol).
I love nice things and do discuss the luxury development and Im an advocate for a variety of projects to elevate the city's stature but sometimes though I just want a $5 lunch. lol
The access to affordability has always been a part of Philadelphia's charm. Even wealthy people sometimes want a $5 lunch deal. (ask Warren Buffet).
Eh I don't like McDonalds: I rarely eat there.
And Wendys rarely as well... I just go there for a cheap on the go snack on rare occasions.
But Im just noticing the cheaper food options are kind of disappearing and I am using McDonalds and Wendys as an example of this trend happening in Center City.
Delis are closing.. which was the other go to for a cheap snack. I would say almost half have closed in Center City. (and there was a lack of them to begin with).
Even Starbucks has closed half their locations in Center City now.. Another prime example, there is literally only a few left...
So all that is left is Dunkin (which is gross) and Wawa. I guess that's why Wawa has been so aggressive expanding in Center City. I love Wawa but eh I just wish there was more options, I feel like the city is missing that right now and most likely it is due to demand being decreased since most offices are still closed.
I guess you can say I wish Philadelphia had the amount of $1 pizza slice places as NYC, and just more variety in its inexpensive food category other than Wawa.
Philadelphia needs more cheap pizza, delis (that are not Wawa) and bagels. I do not eat this food all the time. lol But its just nice to have the option on the go.
Last edited by rowhomecity; 03-17-2021 at 02:36 AM..
Eh... not sad per say. I use this as an example to get a cheap on the go warm "snack" or maybe a quick lunch and not a full meal per say...
I guess you can say my go to fast/cheap lunches when offices were open were the halal carts around Philadelphia and with offices being closed many of them are not operating.
As well as other food carts in the city offering other choices.
I love DIG, Sweetgreen, Cava, Honeygrow, etc.... They are great. Not too expensive really. But eh, I rather not spend $15 on a salad everyday. (my last order was $17 at sweet green. lol).
I love nice things and do discuss the luxury development and Im an advocate for a variety of projects to elevate the city's stature but sometimes though I just want a $5 lunch. lol
The access to affordability has always been a part of Philadelphia's charm. Even wealthy people sometimes want a $5 lunch deal. (ask Warren Buffet).
Eh I don't like McDonalds: I rarely eat there.
And Wendys rarely as well... I just go there for a cheap on the go snack on rare occasions.
But Im just noticing the cheaper food options are kind of disappearing and I am using McDonalds and Wendys as an example of this trend happening in Center City.
Delis are closing.. which was the other go to for a cheap snack. I would say almost half have closed in Center City. (and there was a lack of them to begin with).
Even Starbucks has closed half their locations in Center City now.. Another prime example, there is literally only a few left...
So all that is left is Dunkin (which is gross) and Wawa. I guess that's why Wawa has been so aggressive expanding in Center City. I love Wawa but eh I just wish there was more options, I feel like the city is missing that right now and most likely it is due to demand being decreased since most offices are still closed.
I guess you can say I wish Philadelphia had the amount of $1 pizza slice places as NYC, and just more variety in its inexpensive food category other than Wawa.
Philadelphia needs more cheap pizza, delis (that are not Wawa) and bagels. I do not eat this food all the time. lol But its just nice to have the option on the go.
These Starbucks are still open or have reopened:
3d and Arch
8th and Walnut
10th and Chestnut
12th and Walnut
1200 block Market, in the Marriott
13th and Chestnut, in Macy's (closed and reopened)
16th and Walnut
I don't know whether 15th and Arch (in the Phoenix) is still open, or 18th and Market (Ten Penn Center). 19th and Chestnut closed before the pandemic hit.
The Starbucks at Broad and Walnut, in The Bellevue; Broad and Pine, and 15th and Latimer all have closed and not reopened.
Wawa's expansion also took place before COVID. The Broad and Walnut Wawa, however, has closed for good (that location had a real crime/vagrancy problem). I'm guessing the University of the Arts will expand its dining hall next door into the space once conditions warrant it.
You do know about the two Center City Primo's Hoagies locations (3rd and Market and 11th between Sansom and Walnut), right? Or the Old Nelson Food Company locations that (AFAIK) all remain open (7th and Chestnut, 13th above Chestnut, 19th and Chestnut)? If you're in the area of that last Old Nelson, there's a very good deli with takeout beer on 20th below Chestnut called Monde Market.
Yeah, the cheap-eats universe has shrunk since the onset of the pandemic, just like the restaurant universe has shrunk. But options remain. (Center City has never had too many $1-slice-of-pizza places; one of my favorites, Rosa's (the "pay it forward" pizzeria), closed before the pandemic hit.) But options remain. Maybe the latest round of stimulus will stabilize things.
3d and Arch
8th and Walnut
10th and Chestnut
12th and Walnut
1200 block Market, in the Marriott
13th and Chestnut, in Macy's (closed and reopened)
16th and Walnut
I don't know whether 15th and Arch (in the Phoenix) is still open, or 18th and Market (Ten Penn Center). 19th and Chestnut closed before the pandemic hit.
The Starbucks at Broad and Walnut, in The Bellevue; Broad and Pine, and 15th and Latimer all have closed and not reopened.
Wawa's expansion also took place before COVID. The Broad and Walnut Wawa, however, has closed for good (that location had a real crime/vagrancy problem). I'm guessing the University of the Arts will expand its dining hall next door into the space once conditions warrant it.
You do know about the two Center City Primo's Hoagies locations (3rd and Market and 11th between Sansom and Walnut), right? Or the Old Nelson Food Company locations that (AFAIK) all remain open (7th and Chestnut, 13th above Chestnut, 19th and Chestnut)? If you're in the area of that last Old Nelson, there's a very good deli with takeout beer on 20th below Chestnut called Monde Market.
Yeah, the cheap-eats universe has shrunk since the onset of the pandemic, just like the restaurant universe has shrunk. But options remain. (Center City has never had too many $1-slice-of-pizza places; one of my favorites, Rosa's (the "pay it forward" pizzeria), closed before the pandemic hit.) But options remain. Maybe the latest round of stimulus will stabilize things.
Yes you are correct with the Starbuck locations that remain open, but that is about half of what was open before COVID in Center City.
$1 Pizza was never a Philadelphia thing. Im actually surprised it is not. Because it is very popular in NYC and if they can do $1 pizza with Manhattan rents how can they not do it here??
With that, the only inexpensive food option really in wide spread access across center city is Wawa. I do not dislike Wawa but Center City is just missing some variety in this tier of food. That is my only point.
Lots of the less expensive delis and markets have closed. For example the one "seasons" joint on chestnut closed which offered inexpensive prepared food and another deli on chestnut closed that use to be down the block from a Wawa.
Grocery closed (loved that place) which was sort of an inexpensive quasi deli/prepared foods joint you could pick up something for $5..
Even Old Nelson is closed most of the time. And I love Old Nelson but the city should have more than one deli.
I guess from a retail perspective I am noticing the less expensive food/lunch/quick dinner/snack options are closing up shop.
And lots of food carts are gone. Which also was a large part of that variety of inexpensive quick on the go food options.
Center City was definitely a food cart Mecca and that is barren now.
So when walking around Center City these days and in need of a lunch. There is really not much available whatsoever outside of a Wawa or walking 10 blocks to find a food cart. Or spending $20 for lunch which I do not like to do.
I was in Center City at 3 PM on a Sunday and Old Nelson was closed. As an example...
Even the Chipotle on 12/Walnut closed I believe (which was another of my defacato affordable lunch choices).
My point is I love fine dinning. But for lunch the options in the $5 - 10 tier are dwindling in Center City at a noticeable rate and it is becoming a noticeable trend.
Quick and fast quality food under $10 in center city has declined I would say over 50%.
I do not mind spending money on good food, but sometimes you just want something inexpensive and that is something people with money will agree with....
The only accessible lunch options in Center City are Wawa, Dunkin (gross food), slightly expensive fast casual, or sit down places that cost at least $25. Its not great.
Lunch is not meant to be $20 on a daily basis... I guess this is my point.
Last edited by rowhomecity; 03-17-2021 at 05:32 AM..
Yes you are correct with the Starbuck locations that remain open, but that is about half of what was open before COVID in Center City.
$1 Pizza was never a Philadelphia thing. Im actually surprised it is not. Because it is very popular in NYC and if they can do $1 pizza with Manhattan rents how can they not do it here??
With that, the only inexpensive food option really in wide spread access across center city is Wawa. I do not dislike Wawa but Center City is just missing some variety in this tier of food. That is my only point.
Lots of the less expensive delis and markets have closed. For example the one "seasons" joint on chestnut closed which offered inexpensive prepared food and another deli on chestnut closed that use to be down the block from a Wawa.
Grocery closed (loved that place) which was sort of an inexpensive quasi deli/prepared foods joint you could pick up something for $5..
Even Old Nelson is closed most of the time. And I love Old Nelson but the city should have more than one deli.
I guess from a retail perspective I am noticing the less expensive food/lunch/quick dinner/snack options are closing up shop.
And lots of food carts are gone. Which also was a large part of that variety of inexpensive quick on the go food options.
Center City was definitely a food cart Mecca and that is barren now.
So when walking around Center City these days and in need of a lunch. There is really not much available whatsoever outside of a Wawa or walking 10 blocks to find a food cart. Or spending $20 for lunch which I do not like to do.
I was in Center City at 3 PM on a Sunday and Old Nelson was closed. As an example...
Even the Chipotle on 12/Walnut closed I believe (which was another of my defacato affordable lunch choices).
My point is I love fine dinning. But for lunch the options in the $5 - 10 tier are dwindling in Center City at a noticeable rate and it is becoming a noticeable trend.
Quick and fast quality food under $10 in center city has declined I would say over 50%.
I do not mind spending money on good food, but sometimes you just want something inexpensive and that is something people with money will agree with....
The only accessible lunch options in Center City are Wawa, Dunkin (gross food), slightly expensive fast casual, or sit down places that cost at least $25. Its not great.
Lunch is not meant to be $20 on a daily basis... I guess this is my point.
I agree with your basic point.
Chipotle at 12th and Walnut is still in business. Maybe it was a temporary shutdown?
And while it's not a $1 slice joint, I do miss Pizzeria Cappelli (aka "Gay Pizza" aka "Homo Hut") on 13th Street, which also remains closed, but it looks to me like the closure is temporary. The cigar store the same family owns next door is still open. They have some really good and really creative specialty slices.
My count of pre-COVID Starbucks seems to be lower than yours, but that's a minor quibble.
BTW, speaking of cheap eats, there is a Crown Fried Chicken at 11th and Filbert. I think it's the lone outpost of that ghetto-fabulous sort-of-chain in Center City...wait, there's another one at Broad and South.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
