protest today to raise minimum wage to $15.00 an hour??? (McDonald: apartment, rent)

[FBJ]

Just saw on the news that there was a demonstration today at the CVS in center city to raise minimum wage to $15.00 an hour. How in the hell would that make any sense? All that would do is cause employers to hire less for less hours which none of these fools seem to be smart enough to realize. And what about all the other people who were making 9, 10, and 11 dollars an hour? I believe they would want a raise too.

What a dumb protest today

[PhillyViaBoston]

I'm not sure if you find it "dumb" that people want the minimum wage raised? Or that $15 is too high? Or that CVS was the location of the protest?

Your conclusion "higher wages will equate to hiring less" is right out of the Republican talking points playbook. As you might imagine, there is another side to the argument. I'll try to summarize "how in the hell that would make sense" in a couple paragraphs:

Minimum wage jobs are not the "starter" jobs they once were. These jobs are increasingly held by experienced, older workers, often with families. (Only 20% of minimum wage earners are teenagers, and 60%+ are women.) Many (most?) people working a full-time job at minimum wage do not make enough in a year to hit above the poverty line, and in most states it isn't enough to pay rent on an average 2 bedroom apartment.

Raising the minimum wage forces companies to pay people more, potentially enough to get out of poverty. And this is good for EVERYONE... The economy improves when more people can spend money. Also, less people in poverty typically means less government "handouts," so higher minimum wage has potential to shift burden from your taxes back to corporations. (Wouldn't you like to have CVS or McDonalds pay their employees enough so that those employees can afford to shop at CVS or McDonalds, which could raise their revenues? Just examples. I'm not picking on any employer in particular.)

I'm not an economist, but I've seen a lot arguments for raising the minimum wage that seem to make a lot of sense for the economy overall. But, no matter which side you choose to believe, it's not usually helpful to call the other side "fools." Take a more balanced approach if you're really looking for truth; it is probably somewhere in the middle.

[FBJ]

Originally Posted by PhillyViaBoston

I'm not sure if you find it "dumb" that people want the minimum wage raised? Or that $15 is too high? Or that CVS was the location of the protest?

Your conclusion "higher wages will equate to hiring less" is right out of the Republican talking points playbook. As you might imagine, there is another side to the argument. I'll try to summarize "how in the hell that would make sense" in a couple paragraphs:

Minimum wage jobs are not the "starter" jobs they once were. These jobs are increasingly held by experienced, older workers, often with families. (Only 20% of minimum wage earners are teenagers, and 60%+ are women.) Many (most?) people working a full-time job at minimum wage do not make enough in a year to hit above the poverty line, and in most states it isn't enough to pay rent on an average 2 bedroom apartment.

Raising the minimum wage forces companies to pay people more, potentially enough to get out of poverty. And this is good for EVERYONE... The economy improves when more people can spend money. Also, less people in poverty typically means less government "handouts," so higher minimum wage has potential to shift burden from your taxes back to corporations. (Wouldn't you like to have CVS or McDonalds pay their employees enough so that those employees can afford to shop at CVS or McDonalds, which could raise their revenues? Just examples. I'm not picking on any employer in particular.)

I'm not an economist, but I've seen a lot arguments for raising the minimum wage that seem to make a lot of sense for the economy overall. But, no matter which side you choose to believe, it's not usually helpful to call the other side "fools." Take a more balanced approach if you're really looking for truth; it is probably somewhere in the middle.

The dumb part was the $15 because that would lead to less hiring and less hours

[PhillyViaBoston]

Originally Posted by dabottom

because that would lead to less hiring and less hours

Any chance you read past the first line of my earlier response?

[FBJ]

Originally Posted by PhillyViaBoston

I'm not sure if you find it "dumb" that people want the minimum wage raised? Or that $15 is too high? Or that CVS was the location of the protest?

Your conclusion "higher wages will equate to hiring less" is right out of the Republican talking points playbook. As you might imagine, there is another side to the argument. I'll try to summarize "how in the hell that would make sense" in a couple paragraphs:

Minimum wage jobs are not the "starter" jobs they once were. These jobs are increasingly held by experienced, older workers, often with families. (Only 20% of minimum wage earners are teenagers, and 60%+ are women.) Many (most?) people working a full-time job at minimum wage do not make enough in a year to hit above the poverty line, and in most states it isn't enough to pay rent on an average 2 bedroom apartment.

Raising the minimum wage forces companies to pay people more, potentially enough to get out of poverty. And this is good for EVERYONE... The economy improves when more people can spend money. Also, less people in poverty typically means less government "handouts," so higher minimum wage has potential to shift burden from your taxes back to corporations. (Wouldn't you like to have CVS or McDonalds pay their employees enough so that those employees can afford to shop at CVS or McDonalds, which could raise their revenues? Just examples. I'm not picking on any employer in particular.)

I'm not an economist, but I've seen a lot arguments for raising the minimum wage that seem to make a lot of sense for the economy overall. But, no matter which side you choose to believe, it's not usually helpful to call the other side "fools." Take a more balanced approach if you're really looking for truth; it is probably somewhere in the middle.

So do the people who make 9 to 13 dollars an hour get an increase too? Why should they get a $8 an increase while all the other people's pay stay the same?

[FBJ]

Originally Posted by PhillyViaBoston

Any chance you read past the first line of my earlier response?

You fail to realize that fast food jobs are not supposed to be enough to pay rent. It for teens to gain experience and for older workers who are not working full-time anymore

[phillies2011]

Originally Posted by dabottom

You fail to realize that fast food jobs are not supposed to be enough to pay rent. It for teens to gain experience and for older workers who are not working full-time anymore

Actually you fail to realize that the average age of a fastfood employee is 29 and roughly a third of them support children. Also about a third of them have a post high school degree. Refusing to pay a living wage to individuals who work for a living is terrible for the economy. These people work hard and desperately need more spending power. Even if raised to $15 an hour exactly how much of that do you think these people will be able to save? Practically all of that money is going right back into the economy.

The truth is the american worker productive is up 80% since the 70s and yet wages are only up 11%. Who do you think is reaping the benefits of all that extra productivity? McDonalds makes nearly 1.5 billion dollars in profit every quarter and you want to tell me they can't afford to pay their employees a respectable wage? Meanwhile because their employees are too poor to even be able to afford housing or to feed their families or provide them with medical care etc, instead the american taxpayer has to support them. Every year mcdonalds employees receive over a billion dollars in tax payer assistance. Why should I have to pay McDonalds employees? I don't even eat that garbage. McDonalds should pay their own damn employees.

In previous generations working class people were able to make a living wage working in factories or farming etc. That's all gone today. Retail jobs, fast food jobs, etc, that is all we have left, if those are the best jobs we can give our working class people then the obligation remains to pay them a wage they can live on. The entire economy would be in much better shape and everyone will be much better off.

Perhaps you shouldn't spout off about a topic in which you are woefully uninformed.

[FBJ]

Originally Posted by phillies2011

Actually you fail to realize that the average age of a fastfood employee is 29 and roughly a third of them support children. Also about a third of them have a post high school degree. Refusing to pay a living wage to individuals who work for a living is terrible for the economy. These people work hard and desperately need more spending power. Even if raised to $15 an hour exactly how much of that do you think these people will be able to save? Practically all of that money is going right back into the economy.

The truth is the american worker productive is up 80% since the 70s and yet wages are only up 11%. Who do you think is reaping the benefits of all that extra productivity? McDonalds makes nearly 1.5 billion dollars in profit every quarter and you want to tell me they can't afford to pay their employees a respectable wage? Meanwhile because their employees are too poor to even be able to afford housing or to feed their families or provide them with medical care etc, instead the american taxpayer has to support them. Every year mcdonalds employees receive over a billion dollars in tax payer assistance. Why should I have to pay McDonalds employees? I don't even eat that garbage. McDonalds should pay their own damn employees.

In previous generations working class people were able to make a living wage working in factories or farming etc. That's all gone today. Retail jobs, fast food jobs, etc, that is all we have left, if those are the best jobs we can give our working class people then the obligation remains to pay them a wage they can live on. The entire economy would be in much better shape and everyone will be much better off.

Perhaps you shouldn't spout off about a topic in which you are woefully uninformed.

So what about all the other people who were not making minimum wage at $11 an hour? Should their pay be raised to $19 an hour?

[Angus215]

Any increase in the minimum wage will result in fewer jobs. That's just simple supply-and-demand. The congressional Budget office estimated that an increase to $10 an hr would cost half a million jobs. An increase to $15 an hour would be catastrophic to the very people out there protesting, because their jobs wouldn't exist. You can't just legislate your ideal version of the world.

[Angus215]

Originally Posted by dabottom

So what about all the other people who were not making minimum wage at $11 an hour? Should their pay be raised to $19 an hour?

I think we should all get $100 an hour, and if we all have more money, we will all spend more money, and that will create more jobs . . . So using that logic we should increase it infinitely, right?