16th in this List isn't Bad at all (Philadelphia, Indiana: middle-class, best suburbs)

[Patmcpsu]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Agriculture is not my forte, do you (or anyone) know why the US went off track with food quality? I am guessing it comes down to money and profit in some way shape or form

I'm not an agriculture expert either, but the documentary Big Corn is pretty informative. There's a summary of it here. In short, the government gives subsidies to farmers for each bushel they produce, so the farmer is incentivized to make as much as possible, even if the product is sold for a loss and not profitable until the subsidy kicks-in. It's not just corn, there's also: wheat, grain, barley, oats, cotton, rice, soybeans, peanuts, wool, honey, peas, lentils, chickpeas.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Re leadership. Personally I am very disappointed with how Nutter has simply disappeared. Sure, it's his right to do that but a guy who failed at winning the mayors race two times(Sam Katz) didn't sink into oblivion.

No, Sam Katz hasn't sunk into oblivion. But he hasn't remained what I would call active in setting the civic agenda either. Instead, what he does is explain to his fellow Philadelphians what this city means and why that matters through the documentary films he produces now.

Originally Posted by cpomp

Agriculture is not my forte, do you (or anyone) know why the US went off track with food quality? I am guessing it comes down to money and profit in some way shape or form

But of course.

I think I will want to watch that documentary about corn Patmcpsu recommended above - we also produce tons of sugar (from beets and sugarcane) via these subsidies too, and let's not forget how much of that corn now ends up as high fructose corn syrup - but wrt things like chlorinated chicken, subsidy has less to do with the quality issue than the desire to produce lots of meat as cheaply as possible. It also affects the animals themselves: I can't imagine those chickens with those enormous breasts being able to run around the yard and forage even if they wanted to.

[DavePa]

QUOTE=Patmcpsu;

Photo posted:

https://i.imgflip.com/2w15o3.jpg

LOL But I loved the comment it had. The details Chicago adds in greens and flowers. Clean core you can't miss, Grand Parks filled with Tourist and events ..... does give the city a HUGE BOOST in Summer.

Add the Lakefront with harbors and beaches right in the core and of course .... its Skyscrapers. Tourist and those judging cities like in the OPs link. Clearly, are saying. Chicago really succeeded HUGELY for its Core that it steered to Tourism last few decades.... and clearly won in this aspect.

So I'm not surprised it made #3 of the city list and winning "The Friendliest World city" too. Tourist and visitors see the details locals look thru.

Definitely takes on being as if a Coastal city in summer, KGB a Core right on a Great Lake looking like a ocean.

Philly on the list certainly is a recognition too.

[Indiana Tony]

Truth is, although we have a cool Center City, Philadelphia has very few 'nice' neighborhoods. Most are graffiti-riddled, litter-filled with horrendous parking and full of ignorant, uncivilized neighbors. The parking is particularly a problem in the 'good' neighborhoods.
Most public schools are a disaster ... and don't get me started about our political leaders and crime.


I love Philadelphia and we're here until we retire mostly because we live in a halfway decent neighborhood, we don't have kids to worry about and our bills are low, but a lot of us (myself included) here lie to ourselves on a regular basis about Philadelphia being a wonderful place to live. Some spots, yeah, but mostly, no.


I can't blame people for wanting to live in a safe, clean suburb with decent schools and private parking.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Indiana Tony

Truth is, although we have a cool Center City, Philadelphia has very few 'nice' neighborhoods. Most are graffiti-riddled, litter-filled with horrendous parking and full of ignorant, uncivilized neighbors. The parking is particularly a problem in the 'good' neighborhoods.
Most public schools are a disaster ... and don't get me started about our political leaders and crime.


I love Philadelphia and we're here until we retire mostly because we live in a halfway decent neighborhood, we don't have kids to worry about and our bills are low, but a lot of us (myself included) here lie to ourselves on a regular basis about Philadelphia being a wonderful place to live. Some spots, yeah, but mostly, no.


I can't blame people for wanting to live in a safe, clean suburb with decent schools and private parking.

Chicago has corrupt politics*, bad schools and more violent crime than this place does. And have you seen much of its South and West sides?

I challenge you to find me a Chicagoan who doesn't think it's a fantastic city, though. (They're leaving it because of the high state taxes and the totally dysfunctional state government in Springfield.)

Some of what you describe is true - we are horrible slobs, for instance - but some of it is colored by Negadelphianism, IMO.

And remember, I'm writing this from a beat-up block in East Germantown.

*I've lately been saying to people that Philadelphia politics resemble those of no other American city as much as they do Chicago's - right down to aldermanic, er, councilmanic privilege on zoning and development. (And Chicago has a 50-member Board of Aldermen. Imagine the potential for mischief there.) But in Chicago, the voters get something in exchange for the graft.

[DavePa]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Chicago has corrupt politics*, bad schools and more violent crime than this place does. And have you seen much of its South and West sides?

I challenge you to find me a Chicagoan who doesn't think it's a fantastic city, though. (They're leaving it because of the high state taxes and the totally dysfunctional state government in Springfield.)

Some of what you describe is true - we are horrible slobs, for instance - but some of it is colored by Negadelphianism, IMO.

And remember, I'm writing this from a beat-up block in East Germantown.

*I've lately been saying to people that Philadelphia politics resemble those of no other American city as much as they do Chicago's - right down to aldermanic, er, councilmanic privilege on zoning and development. (And Chicago has a 50-member Board of Aldermen. Imagine the potential for mischief there.) But in Chicago, the voters get something in exchange for the graft.

Politics Chicago-style ..... yes. Goes waaaaay back so nothing new. Yet the city did become what it did. As you noted. Big projects even can get done and strings pulled for private ventures that even Trump took advantage in lowering his tax-assessment for his Trump Tower Chicago. By over the years donated to the Alderman's re-election campaign and his Lawyer a Alderman known there as corrupt.

Schools though much controversy in closings a few years ago. Mostly African-American neighborhoods causing more busing for some.

Chicago Public Schools serves 371,000 students, 78 percent of whom are from low-income families and 18 percent of whom are English language learners. Since 2010, the district has lost more than 30,000 students—many of whom are African American—which has led to underenrollment and school closures.

In 2017 - a quietly released study from Stanford University revealed that Chicago public school students, on average, learn more from third grade through eighth grade than in any other large or moderate-sized district in the country.
- at third grade, Chicago students perform significantly below the national average;
- at eighth, they are more or less at the national average.

It could be argued that Chicago has seen more improvement in its schools than any other large city in the country. And it has made that improvement under difficult conditions—inequitable funding, political instability, and pervasive violence

https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...ublic-schools/

All from this link from last year and has mere on its schools and implementations that even other cities implemented and list things that lead to IMPROVEMENTS. Great .... no. But clearly, some schools have good status in the city. Of course more in certain neighborhoods.


On poorer South and West Side Chicago neighborhoods. As I noted in threads Before. Chicago CLEARLY TOOK A PRO-ACTIVE Clearing out its worst blight thru the 90s to today. Housing high-rise Projects gone (But for exceptions always) Cleared lots are aplenty. Many neighborhoods resemble a small Midwest city over Big City neighborhoods today.

Single-homes much more standard with green-frontage. The city offers
- bi-monthly street-sweeping acres all neighborhoods .... and it shows.
- city is active in having frontage maintained.
- fronts look surprisingly well maintained in so many ..... hard to believe they are highly gang crime hoods.
- no ugly power-line poles in fronts as is the cites trait.

I could post endless streetviews of hoods that look better then my hometown even.

So to say have you seen these hood .... as if looking like a war-zone like some dd in the 80s yet I personally saw.... They are gone.

Chicago did much better in vs Philly
- clearing out blight as separated homes make it easier too
- quick to board-up un-occupied or unsafe homes
- empty lots give these hoods a even more open small city look and somebody is maintaining most.

Chicago neighborhoods with power-line poles not in fronts. Also add to aesthetics and the South-side has many streets even wider then the North see and bit more frontage even.

So is crime gang on gang (and innocents sadly to) worst then Philly? Seems so in these notorious hoods. Most surprisingly look much better then most expect. That basically is my point and some reasons why.

[cpomp]

The biggest difference between Philadelphia and Chicago/NYC/Boston and even DC is the separation of poverty and crime from its downtown areas.
Philadelphia does not have a physical barrier (river) nor a long distance between its best and worst. You could stand in Rittenhouse square and walk North South or West and end up in a sketchy/bad neighborhood in maybe 20 minutes (a little longer West), the same cannot be said for the others.

That paints a more negative picture on the city since the real issues are right in your face, but its also a positive in some ways because people see the real issues affecting a large percentage of the population., except Philadelphia does nothing to improve them, but thats another story...
But Chicago is really no better off than Philadelphia in many aspects, it just has a shinier city center that stretches much further in every direction resulting in more investment.

DC has a lot of sketchiness not far from bad areas, but in DC world its all perfect and the bad is never mentioned.

[Indiana Tony]

How'd we get on Chicago? This is a Philadelphia thread, Chicago doesn't affect us one iota. I couldn't care less about Chicago.


Pointing out that Chicago is half-a-pit doesn't make Philadelphia a better place to live.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Indiana Tony

How'd we get on Chicago? This is a Philadelphia thread, Chicago doesn't affect us one iota. I couldn't care less about Chicago.


Pointing out that Chicago is half-a-pit doesn't make Philadelphia a better place to live.

First, you get major points for the proper use of "I couldn't care less."

Second, the reason I brought Chicago into this discussion is to illustrate the differences in attitude despite some strong parallels.

Now, maybe this still redounds to Philadelphians' detriment: Lincoln Steffens called this city "corrupt and contented" in "The Shame of the Cities" back in 1906, and that willingness to accept less than what we're capable of continues to this day. But the "why would anyone want to live here?" attitude, I think, is unwarranted.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Agriculture is not my forte, do you (or anyone) know why the US went off track with food quality? I am guessing it comes down to money and profit in some way shape or form

Research stuff about ConAgra or Monsanto. Or look at the commodities market(Chicago Mercantile Exchange).

Also a lot of US farm output, well it was before the tariffs, was focused on exports not products for domestic markets.