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I don't have any kind of judgement to give to the child free. I respect their choices and you will not find one post by me on this forum saying otherwise. You are the one judging "some" parents with vitriol based on your assumptions about how they apparently feel and view the world (information you really aren't privy to).
With that said, my factual comments about what parents give back was just a matter of setting the record straight.
I was explaining a specific post I was asked about, I was not making a general statement about all parents which is how you seem to have taken it. I understand that you were defending parents when you replied with all that volunteer/wealth/good citizen stuff. It triggered me, but can you understand how that type of comment might come of off as a bit obnoxious in a thread discussing NOT having children? It's the same kind of pressure/criticism those choosing to not have children hear, and feel every day. I'm not trying to be rude here, I'm asking that you genuinely consider that. I was never criticizing ALL parents. Having interests outside of childcare is something I feel is very good advice. That is my opinion.
Parenting gets nothing but praise in society. Many child free people do wonderful things for the world and their community like my best friend who spends considerable time, effort and expense rescuing abused/negleted animals, and putting them into loving homes. She is contributing greatly to this world it does not matter one bit that she chose to not have kids. I spend enormous time and effort on social justice issues affecting adults and children. People like this are certainly just as valuable as a good parent, in some cases arguably more so, but all they ever hear is "when are you having kids?" "Why are you so selfish?"
Unfortunately, I AM privy to this type one particular type of parent, I know them, one is in my own family. I see them everyday in their complete lack of concern for every other human being that is not their child, or not catering to their child. I'm entitle to my opinion on that, I feel I've earned it. Again, it's not most parents, it's a few that make life miserable for everyone else. They would do themselves and everyone else, especially their own children a favor by finding some other interests in life, and lessening the pressure on their kids to make the parents happy.
That's neither here not there about whether happiness is possible w/o children, of course it is, and of course it's possible with children. Happiness is something that has to come from inside of each individual.
I think it's really strange how people think you can only be happy with children. I for one think you will be happier without them. Most people I've talked to with children wish they never had them in the first place.
Let me fix that: "I for one think I am happier without them". By stating "you will" you're projecting your opinion on everyone and that is incorrect. How do you know that I, for example, would be happier without them?
Also, those people who you've spoken to that wish that they never had children in the first place ... hopefully you just happened to catch them on a bad day. Because if what you wrote is indeed true, those people should definitely NOT have reproduced. I actually pity the kids. I'd like to think that they would have given such a life-altering decision more thought or realized that children are a responsibility and if they're not cut out for it, then they should've taken precautions. What in the world were they expecting?
Maybe they were misguided to think that a child would somehow make their world complete. Or, "babies are sooo cute. I want one!!" Or, "I'm 38 and my clock is ticking..." yada yada. I could go on. All the totally wrong reasons to have a child.
Conversely, the people that can only be happy with children obviously have pyschological issues. There's a void in the lives somewhere and if it isn't a child, then it would be a spouse, or a dog, or whatever. They'd latch on to any of those things to compensate for what is missing. That is why I think that these people likewise should treat their underlying issue because at some point, children will leave and have their own lives. I have my own identity...I am not just my children's mother. I would give my life for my children and they are an important part of my life, but they are NOT my life. My husband would never be pushed to the side, either. Everyone has their place and as a result all of the gloom and doom I read on these threads largely doesn't apply. I'm not unique either.
Every time I talk to others about my future (sometimes long-term) plans, people are horrified to know I wouldn't even consider raising children. It's such a shocking thing to say. Aside from the fact I'm gay, meaning kids are out of the question, it's not even something I would even want.
It's not that I don't understand the potential joys of children, I came from a large, happy family. And I encourage others to have children, it's just not something for me.
In my opinion, I can travel, have nights out, save money, etc. But people remind no one will take care of me when I'm old. But my 85 year old neighbour never sees his kids who live only 15 minutes away.
So I ask. In your opinion, is it possible to be happy and fulfilled without kids?
Approximately 17 percent of the adult population is child-free. It's a documented fact that the higher the person's IQ, the more likely they are to be child-free.
Speaking for myself, it is very possible to be perfectly happy without children. I have never had any interest in raising a child. I know many people who are wonderful parents and for whom parenthood is the pinnacle of joy in their lives, but it is not for everyone.
If you don't want kids then there is no earthly reason to have one. I'm sure you have tons of nieces and nephews around if you want to spend some time with a little person.
Let me fix that: "I for one think I am happier without them". By stating "you will" you're projecting your opinion on everyone and that is incorrect. How do you know that I, for example, would be happier without them?
Also, those people who you've spoken to that wish that they never had children in the first place ... hopefully you just happened to catch them on a bad day. Because if what you wrote is indeed true, those people should definitely NOT have reproduced. I actually pity the kids. I'd like to think that they would have given such a life-altering decision more thought or realized that children are a responsibility and if they're not cut out for it, then they should've taken precautions. What in the world were they expecting?
Maybe they were misguided to think that a child would somehow make their world complete. Or, "babies are sooo cute. I want one!!" Or, "I'm 38 and my clock is ticking..." yada yada. I could go on. All the totally wrong reasons to have a child.
Conversely, the people that can only be happy with children obviously have pyschological issues. There's a void in the lives somewhere and if it isn't a child, then it would be a spouse, or a dog, or whatever. They'd latch on to any of those things to compensate for what is missing. That is why I think that these people likewise should treat their underlying issue because at some point, children will leave and have their own lives. I have my own identity...I am not just my children's mother. I would give my life for my children and they are an important part of my life, but they are NOT my life. My husband would never be pushed to the side, either. Everyone has their place and as a result all of the gloom and doom I read on these threads largely doesn't apply. I'm not unique either.
Very good point on the first bold!
I have read that when quizzed there are a number of people who admit that they feel they might have been happier if they never had children. This is a very different context than saying they would be happier if they'd never had their kids. These people love their children and would do anything for them, they don't regret having them now that they are here. They aren't trying to get rid of the kids they now have, they are projecting themselves back to a time before they had kids and imaging what it would have been like. We can all imagine we'd be happier in some other life, it does't make it true though.
I was explaining a specific post I was asked about, I was not making a general statement about all parents which is how you seem to have taken it.
You were speaking of child centric parents. I read that. I read the initial post about hating it. Obviously not all parents are child centric. I would bet as many, and probably more parents, could be called the opposite. Children en masse are ignored, abused, and forgotten the world over. The child centric parent is, unfortunately, a minority.
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I understand that you were defending parents when you replied with all that volunteer/wealth/good citizen stuff. It triggered me, but can you understand how that type of comment might come of off as a bit obnoxious in a thread discussing NOT having children? It's the same kind of pressure/criticism those choosing to not have children hear, and feel every day. I'm not trying to be rude here, I'm asking that you genuinely consider that. I was never criticizing ALL parents. Having interests outside of childcare is something I feel is very good advice. That is my opinion.
Nothing would have been said to you if you did not offer vitriol towards parents. You were not discussing the benefits in your life for not having children. You were insulting parents. They are not one in the same and that's something a few of you child free people do not grasp. You don't have to insult others in order to discuss your priorities. If you do (insult) you're going to be confronted. Further, the reality for the vast majority of people, be parents, child-centric parents, or the child free is that we all are forced to have various interests and activities. Most of us work. Most of us garden, decorate our homes, read books, shop, watch movies, volunteer, exercise, etc. Even if a person prioritizes his/her child as numero uno s/he's forced to do other things. That's just life, so your advice is probably something child centric parents live every day.
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Parenting gets nothing but praise in society. Many child free people do wonderful things for the world and their community like my best friend who spends considerable time, effort and expense rescuing abused/negleted animals, and putting them into loving homes. She is contributing greatly to this world it does not matter one bit that she chose to not have kids. I spend enormous time and effort on social justice issues affecting adults and children. People like this are certainly just as valuable as a good parent, in some cases arguably more so, but all they ever hear is "when are you having kids?" "Why are you so selfish?"
Good parenting gets praise by families I suppose, but I don't see good parents winning awards or prizes for their good parenting. The rewards are via the children. Full stop. This has nothing to do with your friend's deeds or your deeds. And this doesn't mean that parents aren't doing thankless community work as well. I think your parenting argument in this arena is a red herring for something else that is likely a personal unknown to me. Some child-free have great issues with parents, but it's not about the parents. Just as a bigot's issue with this or that minority is not about the minority. With that said, if you happen to associate with people that call you selfish for not having children then perhaps you need to change the company you keep. I have never in my life heard anyone utter such nonsense off line. I was also child free until my late 30s, long past bearing prime, and while my mom nagged me never did any person I've known spew negativity at me for not having children. So, it's hard for me to relate here.
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Unfortunately, I AM privy to this type one particular type of parent, I know them, one is in my own family. I see them everyday in their complete lack of concern for every other human being that is not their child, or not catering to their child. I'm entitle to my opinion on that, I feel I've earned it. Again, it's not most parents, it's a few that make life miserable for everyone else. They would do themselves and everyone else, especially their own children a favor by finding some other interests in life, and lessening the pressure on their kids to make the parents happy.
Negatively judging people you do not know based on your interaction with a few people in your life makes you a bigot. I am a child centric parent. My child's well being takes priority over mine and that will continue to be the case for the duration of her childhood. That does not make me and other child centric parents like your family member. As I mentioned earlier, we are in no short order of shytty parents in this world. Complaining about people who care too much about their kids is pretty lame imo. http://www.theatlantic.com/health/ar...-child/281092/
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That's neither here not there about whether happiness is possible w/o children, of course it is, and of course it's possible with children. Happiness is something that has to come from inside of each individual.
Agreed. One thing I'm sure of is that if people are hating on others it's unlikely they are happy campers.
Approximately 17 percent of the adult population is child-free. It's a documented fact that the higher the person's IQ, the more likely they are to be child-free.
Speaking for myself, it is very possible to be perfectly happy without children. I have never had any interest in raising a child. I know many people who are wonderful parents and for whom parenthood is the pinnacle of joy in their lives, but it is not for everyone.
If you don't want kids then there is no earthly reason to have one. I'm sure you have tons of nieces and nephews around if you want to spend some time with a little person.
20yrsinBranson
Given your station in life why even mention it? I don't get it.
Every time I talk to others about my future (sometimes long-term) plans, people are horrified to know I wouldn't even consider raising children. It's such a shocking thing to say. Aside from the fact I'm gay, meaning kids are out of the question, it's not even something I would even want.
It's not that I don't understand the potential joys of children, I came from a large, happy family. And I encourage others to have children, it's just not something for me.
In my opinion, I can travel, have nights out, save money, etc. But people remind no one will take care of me when I'm old. But my 85 year old neighbour never sees his kids who live only 15 minutes away.
[b]So I ask. In your opinion, is it possible to be happy and fulfilled without kids?[/B]
Of course it is. Not everyone wants kids and there is nothing wrong with that. Why do some make others feel bad about that. And why should your kids have to take care of you when you're old If that's the reason some have kids then they are very misguided. Very good friends of ours don't have kids and they retired at 45. He owned his own business which he sold. They travel and just enjoy each other. They dote on their nieces and nephews but never wanted any of their own.
Happiness is acceptance of the decisions you make, and being able to see the positive outcomes more than the negatives. You could be happy with kids or without, and miserable with or without.
It was just a question. If it went over your head then that is a personal problem.
No it doesn't. You're reaching but you tend to do that.
You do realize it was you who was reaching, don't you? Really, you're accusing others of behavior that you are blatantly exhibiting. Looking for things that aren't there and then inserting your assumptions is a personal problem and it's your problem.
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If that's the reason some have kids then they are very misguided. Very good friends of ours don't have kids and they retired at 45. He owned his own business which he sold. They travel and just enjoy each other. They dote on their nieces and nephews but never wanted any of their own.
