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Yeah, and I agree, which is why I believe in voluntary euthanasia for people who sincerely cannot deal with extrenuating circumstances of their lives, though I hardly advocate this as an aspiration-worthy response to the issue.
The reality of death is horrifying to many. You are forcing a person either to kill herself or to keep living and suffering. The person is still picking between two evils. This is torture. Nobody should be forced into life and suffering in first place.
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Originally Posted by 415_s2k
I believe that people should be free to pursue whatever happiness does not infringe upon that of others.
Parents achieve their selifsh happiness at the expense of risking the happiness and well-being of their children.
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Originally Posted by 415_s2k
You've already expressed your belief that happiness is merely an unnecessary delusion from the reality of suffering. I simply disagree.
Life is suffering. We are trapped in a perpetual state of need. Pleasure and joy are just temporary satisfaction of a permanent state of lack. This pointless strive to fulfill need has no aim other than keep it going, so we survive to survive.
If happiness comes from a state of lack what does it tell about the nature of happiness?
Are you perhaps a geologist? If so, I would love to hear your explanation for the processes involved in making this formation.
Background info: This is a fully lithified formation in mid-western New Mexico - global coordinates 35*01'55.87" N, 107*20'15.84" W. It is on the east side of a small mesa, with a topside area totaling probably less than 1/4 square mile, rising about 120 feet above the base. According to a [world renowned] local geologist/paleontologist, core drilling in the area shows no connection between the stratigraphy of the mesas and the substrate below the desert floor - thus the mesas did not rise out of the desert floors, and the desert floor around the mesas did not sink. The sedimentary material that once buried the area where the camera was positioned, 120 or more feet deep, has eroded away (hundreds of cubic miles of it, or more, in New Mexico).
So - that is some baseline info to start with. I can also say that there are several formations exhibiting similar characteristics in the area, and even some deep within the sediments of the walls of the Grand Canyon. But for now, I'd like to focus on this one.
Are you perhaps a geologist? If so, I would love to hear your explanation for the processes involved in making this formation.
Background info: This is a fully lithified formation in mid-western New Mexico - global coordinates 35*01'55.87" N, 107*20'15.84" W. It is on the east side of a small mesa, with a topside area totaling probably less than 1/4 square mile, rising about 120 feet above the base. According to a [world renowned] local geologist/paleontologist, core drilling in the area shows no connection between the stratigraphy of the mesas and the substrate below the desert floor - thus the mesas did not rise out of the desert floors, and the desert floor around the mesas did not sink. The sedimentary material that once buried the area where the camera was positioned, 120 or more feet deep, has eroded away (hundreds of cubic miles of it, or more, in New Mexico).
So - that is some baseline info to start with. I can also say that there are several formations exhibiting similar characteristics in the area, and even some deep within the sediments of the walls of the Grand Canyon. But for now, I'd like to focus on this one.
How did it form?
Without more information, I can only go on what the fuzzy image appears to show (which isn't much to go on at all). It appears from the image that you have what looks to be either a high angle reverse fault bisecting sandstone or else you have a monocline. But it is difficult to say for sure based on this lone fuzzy image. But buttes are pretty well understood, geologically. Where is the mystery here? Who is this "world renowned geologist"? What does this have to do with anything in this thread? Perhaps you should start a new thread and ask these questions. But when/if you do, try to give more information. Geologists don't generally make sweeping conclusions, but when they do, it is usually backed up with more data than a fuzzy photograph, a lat./long., and an undisclosed 'world renowned geologist says...'.
If your coordinates are correct, this paper might give you the information that you are searching for:
I hope that by this point of the thread you've understood there is no point for any of the ~115 billion people who've died, or for the 7 billion people currently alive, or for the however many trillions of organisms who have "died" since the start of life.
I dont think there is no point that's pushing it.I dont think we exist due to some fluke accident in the cosmos
[/quote] As for "intelligent design", its a religious delusion, nothing more. The universe is not finely tuned for us, is not here for us. Instead, we are adapted to it. If we weren't, there would be no place in this universe where we could exist - think of all the places where we cannot live: That would be the bulk of the universe.[/quote]
I dont believe in creationism, but Yes there is much creedence that the Universe is finely tuned for us. This has been noted many times in physics
"Fuzzy image?" I think it is quite clear enough to convey what needs to be seen, if you look at it closely and think about what you see (unless, of course, you don't want to see it).
As for more information, I thought I gave about all the pertinent info you might need, with the picture providing the rest. About the only thing I thought of after the editing window closed, was to tell you that this is Navajo Sandstone (which, if you are a geologist, should be reasonably obvious), and, well, I can't accurately quantify the hardness on the Mohs scale, but I am certain that I could slam the mass at the base of the formation (what I might call "the fist") with a 12 pound sledge hammer and not damage the rock much at all.
Who the geologist/paleontologist is that told me about the core-drilling is just about 100% irrelevant - asking for that information sounds more like an attempted distraction from the question. I'm sure you can find verification of his general assessment on the internet.
Or do you just not want to address the question? All I want to know is what do you see here? Sorry, but personally, I think a 10 year old who has watched cement trucks and crews at work could give a fair valuation of this formation.
Here's a couple other formations from the same general area that you might find interesting. Again, I would LOVE to hear your description of how these formed. And YES, these are more grainy than the other, but again, I think they are easily clear enough to see what is there.
And no, these have not been photoshopped. The pictures could be better, but they are accurate representations of the rocks, which again are fully lithified.
Last edited by DoTheMath7; 05-26-2014 at 10:58 PM..
Why do you believe that? Why even if there is a creator must there be a point and purpose to life?
What if your god created sentient life just to see if they could create their own purpose?
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Originally Posted by DoTheMath7
Ah yes, the good ol' "what ifs!"
So if you want to use the what ifs, I will counter with "Pascal's Wager." Yes, I know the refutations "what if Zeus is real," etc., but that doesn't, at all, invalidate his point. What if the God of the Bible IS who the Bible says He is, and Heaven and Hell are real?
You DO know the rest of it, do you not? When I first came to this conclusion, it was entirely on my own.
In case you are not familiar with "Pascal's Wager" . . . I believe in the God and Heaven and Hell of the Bible - for numerous reasons, many predating my conversion from agnosticism to Christianity - and you apparently don't. Should we both die in our current beliefs, and IF the Bible is untrue and there is no God or afterlife, you, although you were right, will be no better off than I. We will both simply cease to exist. Neither of us will even know who was or wasn't right.
But on the other hand, if the Bible is proven TRUE, then while I am in an eternal Paradise, basking in the Light of God's love, you will be left in "the outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth." Although it won't be of any particular significance since nothing can then be done about it, we will both know, for all eternity, what was true.
But please understand, I will not be in Heaven because I am such a good person. I am no better than you. The key to Heaven's gate is not what we have or have not done, it is what Jesus did for us, and whether or not we have accepted His gift and submitted to Him. In other words, if the Bible is true, then you CANNOT, effectively, take the stance that "well, if there IS a God and Heaven, I'm sure I will go there because I am basically a good person!" That isn't how it works! You can't enter Heaven on your own merits - you and I are NOT "good enough" on our own.
Way to totally avoid my question.
Pascal's Wager is so easily debunked I am surprised you even bother. If you are aware of the bifurcation fallacy then why do you think it doesn't invalidate your point?
Please spare me the proselytizing. I wasn't raised with Christianity, so it sounds too goofy to be real to me. The whole idea that your god created me with a defect that can only be corrected by him, and if I don't kiss his butt, he will punish me horribly for all of eternity. Do you realize how that sounds?
As an agnostic I don't dismiss the possibility of there being a god (or a hierarchy of intelligences - along the lines us say, us and ants), but there's no reason to assume that that intelligence is anything other than indifferent towards us. Perhaps an entertaining video game on a dull afternoon, long since forgotten. Equally, we may be merely victims of an improbable cosmic joke.
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