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Well, I have to say that I appreciate that you at least looked at this a bit more seriously (even if it was with the intent of discrediting me rather than addressing the question), although you are making some assumptions from Google Earth that wouldn't hold under scrutiny. Yes, Mount Taylor is not too distant, and I am, as well as you, convinced that there is some volcanic ash (not necessarily from Taylor alone) in the mix (pozzolan?) acting as a cementing agent, which is part of my interest in this.
Not that it matters for the statements made, but the geologist / paleontologist (Dr. Spencer Lucas) is amazingly familiar with the area, and obviously a very intelligent and very busy man who admittedly doesn't seem interested in my ideas - but hasn't yet, that I am aware of, offered a satisfactory explanation for the apparent (dare I say "obvious"?) fluidity in the formation of these rocks. It was he who told me the formations were in Navajo Sandstone, and that core drilling in the area shows no consistency between the mesa strata and the desert floor substrate.
But since you are at least willing to look more closely, I will expand a bit.
In the formation I have dubbed "Strong Arm" because it reminds me of a weight-lifter's arm, slightly bent at the elbow and terminating in a clinched fist, I can't help but see a very thick cement-like material, slowly flowing from the upper most layer of this small mesa. As it flowed - facilitated by the partial collapse of the sedimentary material in the wall behind it, it left behind a trail of notably less coherent and substantial "dross" and began to set, like a cement mixture.
The two pictures labelled "Pancake Batter" also show fluidity, in their case, even a less-viscous fluidity, as a cement or mortar-like mix came out from between layers of strata and flowed to a lower shelf where the "pancakes" formed. One of them (at least) seems to have somewhat indented the shelf on which it rests, with the top of the pancake mass being notably above the upper level of the indentation.
The "Red Wall" appears to be a total collapse of the material of which the wall is made, again consistent with some degree of fluidity.
OK - So far, is anything I suggest here inconsistent with what you see in the pictures? If so, please feel free to elaborate.
Yes. First of all, they are not sedimentary rocks. They are volcaniclastic rocks, most likely of the rhyodacite variety (rhyolite is usually reddish to pink in color while dacite is grayish to grayish white). Secondly, any fluidity you may interpret from these deposits is due to the fact that they are pyroclastic deposits, which are fluidized mixtures of eruption-propelled avalanches that can reach speeds of up to 200 miles per hour and travel many miles (the pyroclastic avalanche created by Mt. St. Helens travelled ten miles, and it wasn't even a particularly large eruption). It is superheated, full of hot volcanic gas, and acts exactly like a fluid as it flows across the ground. Once it cools, it becomes a tuff or tephra, but often times it can also be very crumbly. There were multiple large eruptions of Mt. Taylor which formed these deposits all over the landscape surrounding the volcano. Even though I've never been there, the fact that these deposits are directly below the edifice of the mountain and are located down gradient from the outlet of the ravines and lava flows coming down from the southeastern side of the mountain is proof enough to me that that is what they are. If Dr. Spencer told you it was the Navaho sandstone, he probably didn't understand what you were talking about, which is not a surprise since I didn't either, at first.
He understood amazingly well. He even described some of the specific formations in the area himself to me in a phone conversation. I was quite impressed with how familiar he was with the area - and among his credentials is a degree of some level in stratigraphy. I think he probably knows what he is talking about.
He understood amazingly well. He even described some of the specific formations in the area himself to me in a phone conversation. I was quite impressed with how familiar he was with the area - and among his credentials is a degree of some level in stratigraphy. I think he probably knows what he is talking about.
Did you read the papers at the links I provided? If you are interested in this area, one would think that you would actually read up on what the scientific literature says.
Did you read the papers at the links I provided? If you are interested in this area, one would think that you would actually read up on what the scientific literature says.
Whereas I can't say that I "read" the papers at the links, I did scan through the 77 pages of one of them, and see nothing that controverts anything I said. It speaks of a good number of buttes of sedimentary material (like the ones pictured) to the southeast of Mt. Taylor - which is where these formations are. And I did say that I DO believe, quite strongly, that there is some volcanic material in the sedimentary composition, acting as a cementing agent for the rocks.
I am no expert on the subject, but I do think it is likely that the volcanic material is pozzolan, which the Romans gathered from Mt. Vesuvius' ash fields and used in the manufacturing of their unparalleled concrete, upon which much of their empire was built.
Ever notice how much similarity there is between a Portland cement based mortar mix and a solid sedimentary rock? There are rocks that are not so substantial, like the "dross" in the 'Strong Arm' formation, but that is to be fully expected (predicted, if you would) by an uncontrolled, uneven process of intermixing.
But an abundance of plastic or even fluid mortar / aggregate mixtures that fairly quickly 'set' into fully lithified sedimentary rock . . . well, that can totally change how we view Lyell's uniformitarian geology. You probably don't want to go there, and I don't want to spend much more time on this thread. I'm obviously not going to convince you, and you absolutely are not going to convince me - I know what I have experienced in my life and no one, scientist, psychiatrist or otherwise, is going to convince me that it was nothing more than my imagination.
But one more thing - in your video post of Neil Degrasse Tyson (if I got it right) it is interesting that he, a man that I am certain could not even design a single protein chain (or even a single atom, for that matter) apart from the models already provided in extant life, should call the human body a "STUPID design!" Laugh with him all you want, as many obviously do. It is your choice.
Last edited by DoTheMath7; 05-28-2014 at 10:42 AM..
Whereas I can't say that I "read" the papers at the links, I did scan through the 77 pages of one of them, and see nothing that controverts anything I said. It speaks of a good number of buttes of sedimentary material (like the ones pictured) to the southeast of Mt. Taylor - which is where these formations are. And I did say that I DO believe, quite strongly, that there is some volcanic material in the sedimentary composition, acting as a cementing agent for the rocks.
Ahem, all of the sedimentary rock in the region where you location is situated is Mesozoic aged. As such, since ALL of the volcanics in the region is less than 4 million years old, it is a physical impossibility that there is volcanic material in any of the sedimentary rock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dothmath7
I am no expert on the subject,
It was never a question...you are not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dothemath7
but I do think it is likely that the volcanic material is pozzolan, which the Romans gathered from Mt. Vesuvius' ash fields and used in the manufacturing of their unparalleled concrete, upon which much of their empire was built.
Clearly, you should have read the reports more closely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dothemath7
Ever notice how much similarity there is between a Portland cement based mortar mix and a solid sedimentary rock?
The modern formulation for Portland cement was, in fact, invented right here where I live.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dothemath7
There are rocks that are not so substantial, like the "dross" in the 'Strong Arm' formation, but that is to be fully expected (predicted, if you would) by an uncontrolled, uneven process of intermixing.
Let me guess. Your name is Fred Doty. Am I right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feddoty
But one more thing - in your video post of Neil Degrasse Tyson (if I got it right) it is interesting that he, a man that I am certain could not even design a single protein chain (or even a single atom, for that matter) apart from the models already provided in extant life, should call the human body a "STUPID design!" Laugh with him all you want, as many obviously do. It is your choice.
Do you think that making the neck in such a way as to guarantee that people will choke is an "intelligent design"?
By the way, your 05) "Desert View" is soft sediment deformation, a common occurrence in such sedimentary rocks. The tell tail on that is the fact that the formations above and below are not disturbed, indicating that the disturbance is intraformational, meaning that it does not cross formation boundaries. Neither the prominent layers below or above are disturbed, so it is not a fault. Most like it was either a slump or landslide that occurred after deposition but before lithification was complete.
06) Is also nothing special. I can trace the contacts between sedimentary layers straight across your image, separated ONLY by non-displaced vertical joints in the rock. What you are seeing is modern erosion at work (rock fall at the cliff face). Nothing more. And much of the interbeds appear to be cross-bedded.
Last edited by orogenicman; 05-28-2014 at 04:15 PM..
Ahem, all of the sedimentary rock in the region where you location is situated is Mesozoic aged. As such, since ALL of the volcanics in the region is less than 4 million years old, it is a physical impossibility that there is volcanic material in any of the sedimentary rock.
It was never a question...you are not.
Clearly, you should have read the reports more closely.
The modern formulation for Portland cement was, in fact, invented right here where I live.
Let me guess. Your name is Fred Doty. Am I right?
Do you think that making the neck in such a way as to guarantee that people will choke is an "intelligent design"?
By the way, your 05) "Desert View" is soft sediment deformation, a common occurrence in such sedimentary rocks. The tell tail on that is the fact that the formations above and below are not disturbed, indicating that the disturbance is intraformational, meaning that it does not cross formation boundaries. Neither the prominent layers below or above are disturbed, so it is not a fault. Most like it was either a slump or landslide that occurred after deposition but before lithification was complete.
06) Is also nothing special. I can trace the contacts between sedimentary layers straight across your image, separated ONLY by non-displaced vertical joints in the rock. What you are seeing is modern erosion at work (rock fall at the cliff face). Nothing more. And much of the interbeds appear to be cross-bedded.
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