Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm moving, and I've been cleaning up garbage. I've noticed that I've accumulated great hordes of crap over the years.
I was not so much depressed by not having thrown most of said crap out, as I was upon realizing all these wasted materials I've accumulated - lots of things I've never needed and never used, following me around, haunting me. Most of said crap came from birthdays and Christmases.
I thought to myself, "Wow...those two occasions encourage capitalistic greed."
I thought of myself as a young child, eagerly ripping apart packages like a lion gorging into a recently slain antelope...and how that greed, through those holidays, is taught as being a good thing.
I imagined a culture I'd consider more ideal - a culture in which people spent less on Christmas and birthday presents. I thought of land-fills expanding, filling the oceans with garbage. I thought of all this garbage being made of non-renewable materials like plastics. I thought of how medical supplies are also made of plastics, and how, when we start running low on oil, medical supplies may be more difficult to obtain because of my interest in cheese slices each individually contained in a plastic wrapper.
And then I realized, "I can't change that culture...and I won't. I won't because of the smiles it places on people I care about, and I'm doomed to follow it."
And that put me in a better mood...that acceptance that I'll never change anyway, because with that acceptance I have less to worry about.
And then I understood why slavery went on for so long. It went on for so long because it placed smiles on the faces of people who people cared about. It went on for so long because we are, at root, extremely individualistic beings who build little mental bubbles around ourselves and ignore everyone outside these bubbles except for things and people we care about, more or less.
Then I went into a bad mood again...due to the realization of just how much society encourages this view of "normalcy" this destructive, toxic culture that glorifies mating rituals that involve impressing one's potential mates with bigger and bigger toys, and buying more and more crap.
In our culture, I'm normal if I participate in what is essentially a culture in which I gain status for making the most waste. Society considers that healthy.
If I, say, wander around in circles muttering to myself in public, however, that frightens people.
Culture, and our instinctive drive to follow the group is much more destructive than we typically see it as, I think. We follow things, just because they're considered normal...and that's probably why a lot of the most horrific cultures in existence persisted. I assume that's why Aztec sacrifices occurred. I assume that's why Roman gladiatorial arenas existed. I assume that's why Confederates fought in the Civil War. They were protecting "their people" in other words, their desire to be normal pushed them to do that, I'm thinking.
Therefore, I'd prefer the vast majority of culture to be destroyed. I want people wandering around in circles muttering to themselves. I want people going up to strangers and making comments like, "I am Benjamin Franklin. I am 400 years old." I want people beating their chests and howling in public parks, in chicken suits for attention.
I want all that, because maybe then we can destroy this seemingly very destructive idea that we have to follow what society considers "normal" or chaos will result. Chaos is resulting now, so far as I can tell, from our current culture.
So far as I can tell, individuals have consciences, intelligence and empathy, and culture has neither. Culture spreads, like viruses do, strictly based on how popular a culture is.
By culture, I'm not talking about religious rituals. I'm not encouraging Jews to end their ancient celebrations or for Native Americans to destroy the aspects of their culture some of them have been working very hard to preserve, necessarily. Those rituals are vary tiny aspects of culture.
By culture, I'm talking about most of what culture is...the patterns of daily life people follow because society is following similar patterns.
I am not a nihilist...but I think I would like the spread of nihilism, in the hopes that it would lead to the destruction of this idea that there's something wrong with not following the common trends.
And once more people begin questioning those common trends, perhaps we could get into more open discussions about them, and once we get into more open discussions about them, perhaps intelligent minds could build a new, healthier culture than the mindless trend-born culture that currently exists.
And once society has constructed a newer, more intelligently-designed culture perhaps, through that culture, and the peer pressure that I know guides most of my behavior, my behaviors would become more healthy for the planet in general and the future of humanity.
perhaps intelligent minds could build a new, healthier culture than the mindless trend-born culture that currently exists.
The siren song of elite dictate.
The problem isn't that the patterns people follow are warped and misshapen. That's bound to happen no matter how much effort you put into laying a good foundation.
The problem is that people don't think for themselves. The problem is that most people want and maybe require someone else to think for them. I think that's a much bigger problem than a transitory, crappy culture.
maybe you're just against "pop culture" and "consumerism". If people had pay by the pound/cubic foot, for the stuff they throw away, we'd all find a way to reduce reuse recycle and just not buy plastic crap.
But who are you to say, which shared meanings and which rituals are important, worthy and valid, and what's just hoarder mess filling up in your garage? - you should throw out crap every Spring, instead of letting it pile up to the rafters, maybe.
For you, I recommend exploring various forms of minimalism, such as Japanese. Amish. Strive for calm, strive for simple.
Or Spartan. Perhaps your sword, your gold, and 3 changes of clothes/armor go in a war chest at the foot of your bed. Does that even make sense to someone from the year 2021.
Dont let yourself get attached to anything you can't walk away from in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner:
Whatever the culture is, and whatever "sucks", it's no big deal to turn away from it (even all of it), and do something better. Turn 180 degrees and don't look back.
You don't need to rant and complain about it all though, writing a long-winded post. There's no need for drama and attention in the transition process. That's just taking steps backwards, dirtying your hands, and reverting back to the culture you say you're trying to get away from in the first place. Maybe part of you really doesn't want to give it all up.
Even the whole "hate" matter shows immaturity, as is typical of haters. We're picking up mixed signals here.
You can walk around in circles on your property muttering to yourself all you want. You can also not spend anything on holidays if you'd like to.Your main problem is that you aren't concerned about improving yourself, you are worried about changing others and getting their attention in ways that you want to.
I doubt a new, intelligently-designed culture will have people walking around in circles all day muttering to themselves or claiming to be Ben Franklin. I think that society would die a quick death.
Your understanding of historical events is essentially non-existent. The majority of people in the south did not own slaves and it was not for some individualistic dedication to slavery that most soldiers in the Confederate Army fought. They also didn't fight for slavery because it put a smile on people's faces. Maybe pick up a book and read something about a historical event you are going to reference for your life philosophy.
Slavery went on so long in the US because it was profitable. Slavery is an ancient, and vile institution. The Roman Empire was built on slaves. Other civilizations took slavery for granted. It was/is a pernicious practice.
If you hate consumerism, just buy less. Recycle and reuse.
You can walk around in circles on your property muttering to yourself all you want. You can also not spend anything on holidays if you'd like to.Your main problem is that you aren't concerned about improving yourself, you are worried about changing others and getting their attention in ways that you want to.
I doubt a new, intelligently-designed culture will have people walking around in circles all day muttering to themselves or claiming to be Ben Franklin. I think that society would die a quick death.
Your understanding of historical events is essentially non-existent. The majority of people in the south did not own slaves and it was not for some individualistic dedication to slavery that most soldiers in the Confederate Army fought. They also didn't fight for slavery because it put a smile on people's faces. Maybe pick up a book and read something about a historical event you are going to reference for your life philosophy.
I am improving myself. That's why I'm posting here. Posting here is a way to improve myself, because it's a way I can act to change society for the better. So far as I can tell, humanity is doomed without cultural changes. Therefore, anything I do that doesn't encourage cultural changes is not going to be nearly as good use of my time as posting here. Here, I might be able to change culture. I should be doing it more.
I can't think of why the south would have fought in the Civil War if not to put smiles on someone's face. So far as I can tell, they weren't thinking of the greater good so much as, presumably, just defending "their land."
I don't think a society of people who wander in circles and behave in the silly, harmless, ways I mentioned would die a quick death. Such a society would be less concerned about peer pressure than ours. But...in a capitalism we've already got all the incentives we need to be contributors to society, just through greed or even survival-based needs...and I'd think that would extend to various forms of socialism with capitalistic tendencies too. Wherever there are financial incentives to go to work and succeed...I'd think that's all a society would need.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424
Whatever the culture is, and whatever "sucks", it's no big deal to turn away from it (even all of it), and do something better. Turn 180 degrees and don't look back.
You don't need to rant and complain about it all though, writing a long-winded post. There's no need for drama and attention in the transition process. That's just taking steps backwards, dirtying your hands, and reverting back to the culture you say you're trying to get away from in the first place. Maybe part of you really doesn't want to give it all up.
Even the whole "hate" matter shows immaturity, as is typical of haters. We're picking up mixed signals here.
"Hate" like many feelings, can be harmful or helpful. It can be inspiring. It can drive people to action. It is a mistake to assume only a passive attention to one's own business is always the best way to live. Were that the case, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, and Norman Borlaug would have never attempted their great acts. Neither would all the great speakers and influencers.
I am practicing the sort of culture I'm advocating: a culture that talks about problems with the culture. I don't think most of the modern culture of humans in general does that as much as I'd like. We, instead, follow along, just doing whatever everyone else does more often than I'd like. I want more complaining, so as to alter these cultures we currently have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUPbud
maybe you're just against "pop culture" and "consumerism". If people had pay by the pound/cubic foot, for the stuff they throw away, we'd all find a way to reduce reuse recycle and just not buy plastic crap.
But who are you to say, which shared meanings and which rituals are important, worthy and valid, and what's just hoarder mess filling up in your garage? - you should throw out crap every Spring, instead of letting it pile up to the rafters, maybe.
For you, I recommend exploring various forms of minimalism, such as Japanese. Amish. Strive for calm, strive for simple.
Or Spartan. Perhaps your sword, your gold, and 3 changes of clothes/armor go in a war chest at the foot of your bed. Does that even make sense to someone from the year 2021.
Dont let yourself get attached to anything you can't walk away from in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner:
I'm uninterested in what's best for me. I'm concerned about what's best for society. I don't see the Amish culture as worse than other culture...but I also see that culture as possibly fleeing from the problems we're facing, rather than dealing with them. There's this attitude a lot of people have in which personal contentment is of utmost importance. I'd prefer people going the opposite route of that. My ideal culture would involve lots of people talking online frequently. Discussion forums would essentially function as a brain people would take their criticisms to, and discuss these criticisms intelligently, and then they'd leave, having agreed upon some newer, more intelligently designed culture.
Instead, discussion forums seem to involve far less intelligent discourse than I'd like, and too much venting. I want these places functioning as the brain of our society...with individuals kind of acting like sensory neurons, bringing back information to the central hubs that discussion forums provide. Instead, even on Citi-Data, most comments are not particularly informative...and are often just venting, and Citi-Data is about the best discussion forum out there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by julesevar
Voluntary simplicity and minimalism are pretty common now among some people. Have you ever thought of looking to visit an intentional community?
That's another misunderstanding of the reason I posted this. I'm uninterested in personal satisfaction. I want to alter society.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist
The siren song of elite dictate.
The problem isn't that the patterns people follow are warped and misshapen. That's bound to happen no matter how much effort you put into laying a good foundation.
The problem is that people don't think for themselves. The problem is that most people want and maybe require someone else to think for them. I think that's a much bigger problem than a transitory, crappy culture.
My idea is that, if we can build a culture that points society in the right direction, it won't matter if people want other people to think for them.
I figure that a lot of people do just want to follow along...but that's not necessarily a bad thing, if they're following a good trend. Therefore, we'd be best off changing the trend.
Like you mentioned, cultures are transitory...but that means they can change too. I'm not sure we can alter humanity enough that most people will want to think for themselves.
As I mentioned in my original post, even I am largely guided by cultural traditions...and I'm about as independent-minded as most people are going to get. That's even with my knowledge that the culture I'm following is harmful...so I'd like to see that culture change.
I figure, people are always going to want to be herd animals...so we'd be better off changing the direction the herd is traveling in, that trying to convince people not to be herd animals.
And the more people discuss culture and things they like and dislike about it, and the more we spread the view that culture should not be taken seriously unless it has obvious benefits, the more easy people should feel about discarding that culture and re-building their own.
The problem isn't that the patterns people follow are warped and misshapen. That's bound to happen no matter how much effort you put into laying a good foundation.
The problem is that people don't think for themselves. The problem is that most people want and maybe require someone else to think for them. I think that's a much bigger problem than a transitory, crappy culture.
hence, the new job description: Influencer.
And people who are famous for . . . being famous. No talent (other than suckering in people to pay for their products and screen performances).
Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 1 day ago)
35,581 posts, read 17,927,273 times
Reputation: 50618
Can I ask how old you are, Clintone? Because you sound like a college freshman, who has come home for Thanksgiving break after being out away from home for a few months, for the first time.
They come home able to process that the way they were raised isn't the only way to live, which they thought was true a few months prior.
Is that your situation?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
