Poll - Do you support the South Mountain Freeway? (Phoenix: sales, construction)

[Bondurant]

Originally Posted by observer53

Disagree with this. I've spent enough time in central FL to see the value of well maintained roads taking you anywhere you need to go. Tolls haven't changed in 12 years. For that road, a toll road is a very good solution. Don't want to use it? Stay on the 1-10.

I spent enough time in Chicago to disagree. The folks who were there years and years ago were sold on the toll idea because they would be "temporary" and be used to cover production cost. Tolls increased and now drivers are blackmailed in to buying pre-paid I-Pass devices (buy $40 up front at the old rate or pay increased tolls at every booth.

[pbenjamin]

I am against it, I think it will just encourage more sprawl. We do need a Phoenix bypass for I-10 but that can be done much more cheaply by building a spur between I-8 and I-10 near Gila Bend.

[shiphead]

Originally Posted by observer53

Disagree with this. I've spent enough time in central FL to see the value of well maintained roads taking you anywhere you need to go. Tolls haven't changed in 12 years. For that road, a toll road is a very good solution. Don't want to use it? Stay on the 1-10.

I agree with this solution.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by Bondurant

I spent enough time in Chicago to disagree. The folks who were there years and years ago were sold on the toll idea because they would be "temporary" and be used to cover production cost. Tolls increased and now drivers are blackmailed in to buying pre-paid I-Pass devices (buy $40 up front at the old rate or pay increased tolls at every booth.

You see though, with fuel taxes, everyone is required to pay whether they use it or not, and usually those fuel taxes are much higher than a toll. If you don't want to pay a toll, you are free to take I-10, however, keep in mind that you could be spending more money on gas vs. avoiding the toll.

Also, as for the cost of transponders, many toll agencies are moving to smaller, cheaper, passive transponders, which are just a sticker with a microchip with no batteries to replace. This would be the ideal approach for a cashless toll road if it were to be implemented on the South Mountain Freeway.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by Bondurant

I spent enough time in Chicago to disagree. The folks who were there years and years ago were sold on the toll idea because they would be "temporary" and be used to cover production cost. Tolls increased and now drivers are blackmailed in to buying pre-paid I-Pass devices (buy $40 up front at the old rate or pay increased tolls at every booth.

Well, that's Chicago for you. They handle it differently (and better) in Florida. I would hope that we'd tell people up front it was a permanent toll, reasonably priced, and get this road built.

[jimj]

Well after dealing with the NJ turnpike and then the Penn turnpike on a weekly basis spending well over $100 to go from end to end on the Penn pike I'm not a fan. It'll end up to be just like toll bridges in CA that went from $1 to $5. I don't see an issue with a private company paying for it from buying the land (no eminent domain unless the landowners are completely out of line) to maintaining the roads. They set and collect the fees, own the rest/truck stops and have to cover the costs of emergency services used on that roadway. If they can get it to profitability then great, if you want to pay to drive on it go for it.
The primary road system is in place so if a short cut is wanted to save some time those "some" should fund it. Think about it, if it really would save trucking companies time they could buy yearly access or it could be marketed that if they get in as a founding partner they'd get a discount. This could (as a bypass) remove heavy truck traffic off the major public owned roads reducing the truck vs car accidents.

[PoppySead]

Well, we need to take care of the sprawl already here so I'm for it. Not sure on the toll or not, never dealt with a toll before.

[madmmac]

I am all for it. Not for a toll road.

It would actually reduce pollution. Cars and trucks pollute much more when they are accelerating. So in stop and go situations they are generating much more emissions. At cruise speeds they are much less.

[psulions2007]

Originally Posted by Andros 1337

I was wondering, do you support the South Mountain Freeway?

I personally support it, since it would provide a quicker route from my house in Gilbert to my brother's house in Tolleson. I personally think it should be built as a cashless toll road, where all toll plazas are are pre-paid using an electronic transponder sticker, with an option for automatic replenishment. On each toll plaza, the rightmost lane should also have the option where you can purchase or replenish a transponder.

Tolls are the most economical way to fund highways, and the best part is that you are under no obligation to use those highways. With other funding methods such as fuel taxes, everyone is required to pay regardless if they use the highway or not, and the tax will often be higher than a toll.

Actually there is an even better solution to cashless toll roads than that.

See the 407 ETR in Toronto. Basically, when you get onto the freeway, a camera snaps a picture of your license plate. When you get off, the camera snaps it again. At the end of the month, you are billed at your license's address or you can opt to pay it online.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by psulions2007

Actually there is an even better solution to cashless toll roads than that.

See the 407 ETR in Toronto. Basically, when you get onto the freeway, a camera snaps a picture of your license plate. When you get off, the camera snaps it again. At the end of the month, you are billed at your license's address or you can opt to pay it online.

Video tolling is expensive to implement. Route 407 actually uses both transponders in addition to video tolling, and there is a surcharge for being video-tolled. That approach could work, though.

To indicate whether or not the transponder is detected, there should be a light overhead that indicates the status of the transponder account. A green light would indicate that the transponder was successfully detected, a yellow light would be a warning that the account is low on money, and a red light would indicate either that there is no transponder or the account is out of money, and thus you get charged the video-toll rate.