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Yes... I don't see this being a problem. I say this of course because I own a condo (which there is a lower reward for because the risk is low... always a demand for it) and I'm not a fan of mcmansions. Personal preference that doesn't have anything to do with popular culture. All this said, people will adapt and it's not like Phoenix is losing a major industrial giant like some other US cities have in the past resulting in massive emigration.
Like I said, The issue/concerns I'm talking about are in reference to the housing market in general, not just Phoenix. I don't see condos in phoenix rising much but I don't see them falling like houses and Mcmansions in the burbs and in other regions of the country.
Like I said, The issue/concerns I'm talking about are in reference to the housing market in general, not just Phoenix. I don't see condos in phoenix rising much but I don't see them falling like houses and Mcmansions in the burbs and in other regions of the country.
Since this is the local Phoenix, Arizona relocation forum, discussion should be focused on Phoenix and not the housing market in general.
We agree that the culture of taking on consumer debt was out of control from 2000-2007. But the biggest change in my mind is intense global competition as well as the multi-trillion dollar run up of government debt. America needs a new invention like the internet in order to maintain 1st place and stop spending money we don't have. We no longer compete well in most manufacturing sectors. Additionally our intellectual property is stolen or voluntarily exported. Finally a large subset of graduating students are completely inferior to the aggressive young minds coming out of China and India. Therefore I don't necessarily predict great things for the USA as a whole. We are slowly turning into England or Russia. I've always taught my kids you don't want to be average. That's because I predict average people (and below) will be struggling for the rest of their American lives no matter how hard they wave their American flags with hope and patriotism. We live in a dog-eat-dog world right now and people are not seeing the obvious trends. The best-of the-best American minds are still kicking butt but 50% of the population decided to coast and want their free benefits. They will be voting to keep those freebies so the debt will keep on rising. Unfortunately I'm not as optimistic as you. I diverge and sorry for the rant...
I'm not sure if you want to advocate only above-average people deserve wage growth or any other elitist economic model? - If that is the case, then you should feel bad about America's future and our local real estate market in particular as that one depends on average wage earners more than any other I know.
I am advocating that we recreate the American Dream and in particular rising wages for Average Joe. The fact that he has been losing real income and thereby lost purchasing power for more than a decade and has been falling behind the rich by more than 30 years now should be front and center of any debate and policy. Only this will heal the RE market long term - again particularly in Phoenix, which is not an elitist local economy, but full of average Joe's (me included) and Jane's. The cause of all our RE issues is that they have been losing purchasing power for decades and continue to do so this very second. The 1% uber-rich who continue to do well throughout all this time cannot buy and live in all the homes here in Phoenix. I hope you do not advocate that all land should be owned only by the 1% uber-rich who continue to do well all this time. I thought we fought a War of Independence to avoid a landowner aristocracy. Please let's not get distracted by second-tier issues like government debt or China or whatever else. Make Average Joe's income grow, strengthen his purchasing power and our RE market will be healed forever. Average household income in Phoenix is around 45k I think. Make the income group around 45k grow in real terms here and everything else will fall into place. Once they are confident their income growths is for real and lasting, they will come out and buy homes like you have never seen before. This will start a virtuous cycle again benefiting our local economy. So in conclusion we have to change our economic model from elitist back to average Joe - make the American Dream work for all of us again. We have done this before like coming out of the Great Depression. We started under much worse circumstances, think 1932. There is no reason to think we can't do it again. All we have is to want it - and I want it for my children. I want it for them regardless if they are in the 5th or 50th percentile. This is America, the land of opportunity and the land for you and for me.
I'm not sure if you want to advocate only above-average people deserve wage growth or any other elitist economic model? - If that is the case, then you should feel bad about America's future and our local real estate market in particular as that one depends on average wage earners more than any other I know.
I am advocating that we recreate the American Dream and in particular rising wages for Average Joe. The fact that he has been losing real income and thereby lost purchasing power for more than a decade and has been falling behind the rich by more than 30 years now should be front and center of any debate and policy. Only this will heal the RE market long term - again particularly in Phoenix, which is not an elitist local economy, but full of average Joe's (me included) and Jane's. The cause of all our RE issues is that they have been losing purchasing power for decades and continue to do so this very second. The 1% uber-rich who continue to do well throughout all this time cannot buy and live in all the homes here in Phoenix. I hope you do not advocate that all land should be owned only by the 1% uber-rich who continue to do well all this time. I thought we fought a War of Independence to avoid a landowner aristocracy. Please let's not get distracted by second-tier issues like government debt or China or whatever else. Make Average Joe's income grow, strengthen his purchasing power and our RE market will be healed forever. Average household income in Phoenix is around 45k I think. Make the income group around 45k grow in real terms here and everything else will fall into place. Once they are confident their income growths is for real and lasting, they will come out and buy homes like you have never seen before. This will start a virtuous cycle again benefiting our local economy. So in conclusion we have to change our economic model from elitist back to average Joe - make the American Dream work for all of us again. We have done this before like coming out of the Great Depression. We started under much worse circumstances, think 1932. There is no reason to think we can't do it again. All we have is to want it - and I want it for my children. I want it for them regardless if they are in the 5th or 50th percentile. This is America, the land of opportunity and the land for you and for me.
I seriously... couldn't have found the words to describe this any better. The problem is people (in general) are greedy. I'm not talking about anecdotal stories about friends or family doing something unselfish. I'm talking about the general population... there are plenty of 'elitist' people that have a controlling interest in most facets of everyone's everyday lives. Some people call it income jealousy, but the truth of the matter is it's flat out income inequality because the people with the money think they 'earned' it and they are 'more intelligent'. That couldn't be farther from the truth and until we start enacting laws that prevent abuse of the lower class we will not see the end of this top heavy economic turbulence.
I'm sick of people in great financial positions spouting off about trickle down economics. Really? As stated directly above. The last time this country had great economic prosperity was after the Great Depression and that is because the % of money that was controlled by the upper 1% was much lower than it is now. It's too bad that for every Bill Gates there are 1,000 greedy, ego-maniacal, control freaks that would rather buy a new yacht than provide some extra benefits to employees. Please... no arguments about bankrupting companies... I'm talking about these 'financial packages' to CEO's and other top tier management positions.
Not sure where some of the facts you guys are buying into are coming from but let me give you what I know.
The rich today have seen their overall percentage of our wealth drop while at the same time their share of the overall collected income tax is at its highest...rates mean nothing...its the actual dollar that matter.
In any economy that finds itself relying more and more on fewer and fewer people is a model that is destined to fail....the solution is to lower the rates and broaden the base...or diversify which is one the main rules for stability.
Our massives spending has caused our debt to rise to the point that in the last 4 years it is causing major drops in the value of our dollar....that is one of the main reasons gasoline costs so much more today.
We need to get off the additiction of Chinese and Japanese credit, that can only happen with a leaner and strong government..quit the spending in other words...that will increase our spending power of the dollar overnight and start bringing home the millions of jobs our government and both parties allowed to be outsourced.
That will cause the average Joe in Phoenix to get decent raises and continue the great American dream.....what we've seen in the last 4 years will lead to nothing but disaster in the end.....want to follow in the path of California....nationally???
Not sure where some of the facts you guys are buying into are coming from but let me give you what I know.
The rich today have seen their overall percentage of our wealth drop while at the same time their share of the overall collected income tax is at its highest...rates mean nothing...its the actual dollar that matter.
In any economy that finds itself relying more and more on fewer and fewer people is a model that is destined to fail....the solution is to lower the rates and broaden the base...or diversify which is one the main rules for stability.
Our massives spending has caused our debt to rise to the point that in the last 4 years it is causing major drops in the value of our dollar....that is one of the main reasons gasoline costs so much more today.
We need to get off the additiction of Chinese and Japanese credit, that can only happen with a leaner and strong government..quit the spending in other words...that will increase our spending power of the dollar overnight and start bringing home the millions of jobs our government and both parties allowed to be outsourced.
That will cause the average Joe in Phoenix to get decent raises and continue the great American dream.....what we've seen in the last 4 years will lead to nothing but disaster in the end.....want to follow in the path of California....nationally???
I think all three of us said the same thing three different ways
I'm not sure if you want to advocate only above-average people deserve wage growth or any other elitist economic model? - If that is the case, then you should feel bad about America's future and our local real estate market in particular as that one depends on average wage earners more than any other I know.
You are waving the flag of "hope" again. I am not saying only above average folks deserve wage growth. I'm saying the market forces are at work. China and others are absorbing our intellectual property (either by stealing it or because American companies do their best to outsource our jobs and technology to low cost solutions). The reality is the global market doesn't have compassion. They don't care if you "need" $20 n hour to barely raise a family. If someone is willing to work for next to nothing and figures out a way to get it done (carved out homes in a riverbank for example) then in the end they will get the slave labor job. Unfortunately, it's as simple as that. One industry by one we are being outsourced.
So IMHO, that is pending reality. So INEXPENSIVE parts of the country (cheap labor and cheaper housing) will fair better. Hence I think Phoenix will be in much better shape in the coming months and years. I cannot say where the end game is (10-30 years). But I can speak with certainty why I bought in Phoenix... It cost me a whole lot less than MN. Just look back 10 years ago. Why were so many people flocking to Phoenix from California? It was price, price, and price!
You are waving the flag of "hope" again. I am not saying only above average folks deserve wage growth. I'm saying the market forces are at work. China and others are absorbing our intellectual property (either by stealing it or because American companies do their best to outsource our jobs and technology to low cost solutions). The reality is the global market doesn't have compassion. They don't care if you "need" $20 n hour to barely raise a family. If someone is willing to work for next to nothing and figures out a way to get it done (carved out homes in a riverbank for example) then in the end they will get the slave labor job. Unfortunately, it's as simple as that. One industry by one we are being outsourced.
So IMHO, that is pending reality. So INEXPENSIVE parts of the country (cheap labor and cheaper housing) will fair better. Hence I think Phoenix will be in much better shape in the coming months and years. I cannot say where the end game is (10-30 years). But I can speak with certainty why I bought in Phoenix... It cost me a whole lot less than MN. Just look back 10 years ago. Why were so many people flocking to Phoenix from California? It was price, price, and price!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locutus of Board
PHX expected to have one of the lowest housing appreciation over next decade.
I would agree that Phoenix would have a better shot at an appreciable future... but the city needs to find a way to get diverse industrial growth here. I'm not saying it's easy... but until that happens, this city will always just be a vacation/retirement destination.
Anyone notice the increasing inventoty and alot of statuses changing from Pending to Active? There are alot of price drops too. Is this normal this time of the year?
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The best-of the-best American minds are still kicking butt but 50% of the population decided to coast and want their free benefits. They will be voting to keep those freebies so the debt will keep on rising. Unfortunately I'm not as optimistic as you. I diverge and sorry for the rant...
