Air Conditioners and Furnaces (Phoenix: fit in, how much, house)

[HACESOL]

How much is a typical air conditioning bill per month? Do the most homes in Phoenix have a furnace (for hot water/boiler etc - Im guessing you don't need to use it for cold there - thanks

[Kimballette]

Utility bills depend entirely on size of the home, your temperature preferences, home's orientation, insulation, etc.

Phoenix metro homes do, of course, have heating systems, but not oil furnaces like those commonly used in the east. Most people do, indeed, use their heating system in the winter, but some do not. This will also depend on the home's insulation, etc. But it does get down to freezing several times during the winter here.

[Pink Jazz]

Typically, heating here in the Phoenix area is either a natural gas forced air furnace or an electric heat pump. Almost all homes without natural gas service here in the Phoenix area (which are actually very common) will use an electric heat pump, while those with natural gas service may either use a natural gas forced air furnace or an electric heat pump depending on builder. Radiant (hot water) heating systems are almost never used here in residential applications, however, some commercial buildings may use radiant heating (as well as radiant cooling with cold water).

[Jukesgrrl]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

... Almost all homes without natural gas service here in the Phoenix area (which are actually very common) will use an electric heat pump, while those with natural gas service may either use a natural gas forced air furnace or an electric heat pump depending on builder. Radiant (hot water) heating systems are almost never used here in residential applications, however, some commercial buildings may use radiant heating (as well as radiant cooling with cold water).

I've always wondered about that. I get that hydroponic radiant heating would be too expensive to retrofit into an existing home, given the few number of days heat is actually needed. But if it were installed when a home was built wouldn't it be boon, especially if a solar hot water heater was incorporated into the mix? Radiant heating has the quickest response time of any heat system and ceramic tile is its ideal transporter. Given the popularity of tile floors in the Southwest, combined with the desire to make the most efficient use of expensive electricity, hydroponic radiant seems to me like a natural for new construction. So what am I missing? Does the need for still having ductwork to distribute the A/C, plus the relative cheapness of buying a furnace that will be rarely used, counter that cost?

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl

I've always wondered about that. I get that hydroponic radiant heating would be too expensive to retrofit into an existing home, given the few number of days heat is actually needed. But if it were installed when a home was built wouldn't it be boon, especially if a solar hot water heater was incorporated into the mix? Radiant heating has the quickest response time of any heat system and ceramic tile is its ideal transporter. Given the popularity of tile floors in the Southwest, combined with the desire to make the most efficient use of expensive electricity, hydroponic radiant seems to me like a natural for new construction. So what am I missing? Does the need for still having ductwork to distribute the A/C, plus the relative cheapness of buying a furnace that will be rarely used, counter that cost?

Also, high-efficiency condensing furnaces with an AFUE of 90% or greater aren't very commonly installed here, with even most Energy Star tract homes with natural gas service using standard 80% AFUE furnaces.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl

I've always wondered about that. I get that hydroponic radiant heating would be too expensive to retrofit into an existing home, given the few number of days heat is actually needed. But if it were installed when a home was built wouldn't it be boon, especially if a solar hot water heater was incorporated into the mix? Radiant heating has the quickest response time of any heat system and ceramic tile is its ideal transporter. Given the popularity of tile floors in the Southwest, combined with the desire to make the most efficient use of expensive electricity, hydroponic radiant seems to me like a natural for new construction. So what am I missing? Does the need for still having ductwork to distribute the A/C, plus the relative cheapness of buying a furnace that will be rarely used, counter that cost?

The pricing of electricity in the winter here makes efficiency un necessary. A summer "peak hours" kilowatt of electricity might cost a quarter. An off-peak, winter kilowatt runs about a nickel, and you dont need many of them to stay comfortable. Heat pumps respond quick in the 40-50 degree range, and they cost very little to run. Depending on the occupant and the weather, you might not even run a furnace in a given year. Water-transferred Radiant heating would add lots of potential problems and provide very little benefit in most homes here. Electricity is inexpensive in the winter here.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

The pricing of electricity in the winter here makes efficiency un necessary. A summer "peak hours" kilowatt of electricity might cost a quarter. An off-peak, winter kilowatt runs about a nickel, and you dont need many of them to stay comfortable. Heat pumps respond quick in the 40-50 degree range, and they cost very little to run. Depending on the occupant and the weather, you might not even run a furnace in a given year. Water-transferred Radiant heating would add lots of potential problems and provide very little benefit in most homes here. Electricity is inexpensive in the winter here.

Of course, you rarely see any form of electric resistance heating here such as an electric furnace or baseboards, and most heat pump installations here do not have any auxiliary heating strips in the air handler.

[observer53]

I'm sure the technical discussion is very interesting to those of you participating, but it really has nothing to do with the OP's question. Let's get back to the topic, please.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by observer53

I'm sure the technical discussion is very interesting to those of you participating, but it really has nothing to do with the OP's question. Let's get back to the topic, please.

Well, I've pretty much already answered the latter part of the OP's question in my post, and the answer was that most homes here typically use either a natural gas forced air furnace or an electric heat pump for heating, and that radiant heating is almost never used here in residential applications.

As for cooling costs, with our 2692 square foot one-story house with a pool, our May electric bill was $152.15, vs. the average of $186.50 for similarly sized one-story homes with pools. We started using our air conditioner in late April. However, we are on a time-of use plan, and our bill would have been $178.71 if we were on the basic plan (our savings comes mostly from running the pool pump off peak).

[jaredC]

I have a 1500 sf house. Single floor, built in 1949 that has virtually zero insulation. During the summer months, we keep our home around 78-79. We close all doors to other rooms and do what we can to minimize cold air escaping. But...with crap insulation, no matter how hard we try to control our electric, it still.costs almost $200 a month. Oh, and our a/c unit was added last summer. I love the winter months, cause our electric bills rang from $50 to $70 at most. A blessing.