Why Phoenix Metro with 3rd Worst Poverty and Dismal Recovery? (Mesa: home builders, construction)

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by Potential_Landlord

Agreed 100%. And if you stay, vote responsibly this fall to support our fed-backed RE economy in Phoenix and AZ. Don't kill or antagonize the goose that lays golden eggs for us. Don't follow ideology but what's best for Arizona. This is our chance to get it right and we do not have much time left.

Seriously, you're saying we need to rely on politicians of a different side of the same coin to address and solve issues?

Thanks for the humor though!

[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by stevek64

Seriously, you're saying we need to rely on politicians of a different side of the same coin to address and solve issues?

Thanks for the humor though!

Cheers!

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by KurtAZ

General Dynamics and Boeing (AH-64 Apache specifically). Motorola used to have a huge presence here...Orbital is still here (think Rocket Scientists). Not the level of the Sikorsky facilities (I was really impressed driving into Trumbull and watching the helicopters taking off over the river) but it was here.

And no...this has not always been a poor State, nor is it. AZ is normally around 18 or 19 for highest Gross State Product.

Good stuff, thanks.

[elan]

Look at who you are sitting next door to. If a business wanted to relocate to your region, where would they have a greater chance to make money? Nevada and Utah have a better business climate than Arizona. The good news is, they would not go to New Mexico or California. That leaves Arizona in the middle, the glass is half full. A future business does not care if you have a nutty politician. They don't care if you are red or blue, they are looking for green. Sweeten the pot and they will come.

[beTucsonan]

Originally Posted by elan

They don't care if you are red or blue, they are looking for green. Sweeten the pot and they will come.

Yep - politics matter, but they are only one factor of many. And they will not stop a business from doing what it needs to do.

I spent ten years in Pittsburgh - well known for crappy politics and huge taxation on not only businesses, but residents - even commuter taxes in case you live in an incorporated suburb! Amazingly, despite this "bad climate" the city has undergone a magnificent transformation and is now an economic leader. This was the result of grass-roots work done by local people, businesses and even the Universities to create an environment where a business would like to setup shop and then subsequently have a chance at real success.

Can Phoenix/Arizona do the same thing? Absolutely. Down South, Startup Tucson just won a fairly prestigious grant to help foster some young businesses into maturity - that sort of thing is significant, since it's the small to mid-size businesses that will turn this economy around. Why didn't Phoenix win? Interested parties should be looking into that - and I don't mean any government groups, I mean the local business groups. Actually no other city West of the Mississippi won one of those grants this year, so that should speak to the hard work Startup Tucson put in there.

Also, Arizona should not waste time chasing Fortune 500's - we currently have about 5. We are not going to draw in even double that, and even if we did that puts us on par with such titans as ... Tennessee. Wow. So foster small and mid-size business growth. If the politicians won't do it, then the people can.

[yukon]

I live next door, in NM. Looking from afar, you guys have good folks at the city, county and federal levels. Your state legislature? Hoo boy. You have problems there. And those are the folks giving your state the black eye.

Which is a shame, because AZ isn't as bad as many outsiders think it is.

[blisterpeanuts]

Arizona has a lot going for it, and a lot of potential it can achieve with good leadership.

- Retirees. They are a tremendous asset! They spend money, they don't take away jobs, and they are well behaved.

- Weather. Gorgeous 8 months out of the year while everyone else is shivering and shoveling. 4-5 months of heat is worth it (and some love the heat. I do!).

- Natural beauty. Geographically diverse, the Sonoran desert, the mountains up north, the mesas, the painted desert, the Canyon -- something for everyone.

- Transportation. Very easy to get around with a car, the broad 6-lane avenues and well marked streets. Light rail in Phoenix, Tucson street cars.

- Shopping. So convenient, box stores of every description, and a competitive landscape.

What can be improved? Obviously education is at the top of everyone's list. Yet, there are some excellent schools, magnets and charters, and Phoenix has city-wide enrollment so that a child in a low income area can attend a gifted school miles away. Not convenient, maybe, but at least the opportunities are there. Our child went to a charter in Peoria that was as good as any school we've seen in Massachusetts. The best in Phoenix is as good as anywhere else.

I would definitely increase education budgets -- raise salaries and try to attract a higher quality of staff. Also, build more neighborhood schools and get away from these mega-schools like they have in southern California. This is just cold hard cash; gotta get it from somewhere.

Attract more businesses. California is a gold mine of businesses waiting to be exploited. Arizona ought to be aggressively recruiting them to move or expand into this state. Shower them with brochures illustrating the kinds of houses you can buy in Phoenix and Tucson for $200K and $300K, the wide roads, the great weather, the golf courses, the great restaurants, the sports events, the low cost of living, etc. Arizona should have gotten that Tesla plant; how did they lose to Nevada? That's a lot of jobs and infrastructure that a big plant like that can bring.

There's a lot of upside to Arizona. They just need some intelligent leadership to make it a reality.

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by BajaAZ

Yep - politics matter, but they are only one factor of many. And they will not stop a business from doing what it needs to do.

I spent ten years in Pittsburgh - well known for crappy politics and huge taxation on not only businesses, but residents - even commuter taxes in case you live in an incorporated suburb! Amazingly, despite this "bad climate" the city has undergone a magnificent transformation and is now an economic leader. This was the result of grass-roots work done by local people, businesses and even the Universities to create an environment where a business would like to setup shop and then subsequently have a chance at real success.

Can Phoenix/Arizona do the same thing? Absolutely. Down South, Startup Tucson just won a fairly prestigious grant to help foster some young businesses into maturity - that sort of thing is significant, since it's the small to mid-size businesses that will turn this economy around. Why didn't Phoenix win? Interested parties should be looking into that - and I don't mean any government groups, I mean the local business groups. Actually no other city West of the Mississippi won one of those grants this year, so that should speak to the hard work Startup Tucson put in there.

Also, Arizona should not waste time chasing Fortune 500's - we currently have about 5. We are not going to draw in even double that, and even if we did that puts us on par with such titans as ... Tennessee. Wow. So foster small and mid-size business growth. If the politicians won't do it, then the people can.

Although a great story, I don't think Pittsburgh is a good example for Phoenix, just compare the size and historical populations over the past 50 years or so. Pitt, at 1/5 the size of Phoenix, is a nice little place that has finally pulled it all together, but it took a long time and many fits and starts. They've actually benefited from the decline in population.

Tucson on the other hand, might be a good comp.

[beTucsonan]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

Although a great story, I don't think Pittsburgh is a good example for Phoenix, just compare the size and historical populations over the past 50 years or so. Pitt, at 1/5 the size of Phoenix, is a nice little place that has finally pulled it all together, but it took a long time and many fits and starts. They've actually benefited from the decline in population.

Tucson on the other hand, might be a good comp.

One-fifth? Phoenix metro is 4.3M and Pittsburgh metro is 2.3M. Pittsburgh is smaller, sure, but it's not just "a nice little place." And if you mean that Pittsburgh benefited from a decline in population then you are misinformed - the city suffered for that and is now celebrating recent growth trends, population-wise.

The examples are actually closer than you might like to think, and Tucson doesn't factor into the conversation since there are almost no true parallels - Pittsburgh is a very economically viable city and thee economic center of it's region (like Phoenix, and unlike Tucson). Like Phoenix is currently experiencing, Pittsburgh went through a decline in economic growth and is now emerging. Like Phoenix, Pittsburgh suffered from a national PR problem in that people didn't really want to move there, there were no jobs and it lacked an educated work force. Like Phoenix, Pittsburgh suffered under unfortunate governance which created problems when trying to attract business to the city. Unlike Phoenix, Pittsburgh has remedied these issues.

Is there any reason to ignore examples of success when discussing a city's economic duldrums? I don't think so.

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by BajaAZ

One-fifth? Phoenix metro is 4.3M and Pittsburgh metro is 2.3M. Pittsburgh is smaller, sure, but it's not just "a nice little place." And if you mean that Pittsburgh benefited from a decline in population then you are misinformed - the city suffered for that and is now celebrating recent growth trends, population-wise.

The examples are actually closer than you might like to think, and Tucson doesn't factor into the conversation since there are almost no true parallels - Pittsburgh is a very economically viable city and thee economic center of it's region (like Phoenix, and unlike Tucson). Like Phoenix is currently experiencing, Pittsburgh went through a decline in economic growth and is now emerging. Like Phoenix, Pittsburgh suffered from a national PR problem in that people didn't really want to move there, there were no jobs and it lacked an educated work force. Like Phoenix, Pittsburgh suffered under unfortunate governance which created problems when trying to attract business to the city. Unlike Phoenix, Pittsburgh has remedied these issues.

Is there any reason to ignore examples of success when discussing a city's economic duldrums? I don't think so.

I'm not saying ignore, I'm saying they are very different circumstances and Pitt is a city of 300k and Phoenix is 1.5 million.

Pitt population declined every decade since the 50's and the census projects a slight increase this year. Meanwhile, and this is why I say not a good comp, Phoenix population has risen every decade by rates unseen elsewhere in the country.

It's about digestion and Phoenix is a relatively new city that hasn't digested the huge population influx. Meanwhile, Pitt was around for both the Industrial Revolution and the De-Industrialization of the US.