Density/Infill has arrived in Phoenix (AZ republic) (Tempe, Taylor: apartments, to rent)

[phoenixmike11]

According to the Arizona Republic density and infill have arrived in the area and will continue to grow

Metro Phoenix starting to grow up instead of out

[AZ_Rookie]

^^^ it's discouraging (to me) - they keep comparing Phoenix to LA, SF and NY... Those are the last places I'd want to mimic.

[JGMotorsport64]

Good, Phoenix needs vertical growth.

[Maroon197]

This stuff is happening in just about every city across America, including rust belt cities that were formerly left for dead. The problem is that almost none of the new development nationwide is really affordable. It's all the same generic "luxury" projects where you pay way too much for way too little in return. And the units/materials/finishes are often of somewhat questionable quality--they look amazing today, but may not really stand the test of time. I'm a huge proponent of walkable neighborhoods, but living in a generic modern "luxury" building near trendy new over-priced restaurants and expensive boutique stores is not my idea of an authentic walkable neighborhood.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by Maroon197

This stuff is happening in just about every city across America, including rust belt cities that were formerly left for dead. The problem is that almost none of the new development nationwide is really affordable. It's all the same generic "luxury" projects where you pay way too much for way too little in return. And the units/materials/finishes are often of somewhat questionable quality--they look amazing today, but may not really stand the test of time. I'm a huge proponent of walkable neighborhoods, but living in a generic modern "luxury" building near trendy new over-priced restaurants and expensive boutique stores is not my idea of an authentic walkable neighborhood.

^I figured somebody would be negative about this trend.

[Maroon197]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

^I figured somebody would be negative about this trend.

Actually I'm really curious to see how it is all going to play out. Most working class people are priced out of these new developments (regardless of the city), and they end up getting pushed out to inner and outer suburbs in the search for affordable housing. But in a lot of places, especially back East, huge swaths of luxury units have been purchased and held by investors. As investment money dries up and the market becomes saturated with expensive housing units that only a certain segment of the population can afford (wage stagnation rears its ugly head), one would assume that prices will eventually have to trend downward. Or will they?

It will also be interesting to see what happens to urban public schools. Most are, to be blunt, terrible. That means that when young couples living the urban lifestyle start looking to have kids they either have to risk sending them to sub-par schools, shell out for expensive private school, or simply move to the suburbs where they have more space and better school systems. Maybe the inner city school systems will improve with changing demographics, but then what will that mean for suburban school systems? We just keep moving the problems around instead of actually addressing them.

[asufan]

Artisan Village (3-story townhouse/condos at 7th St & Roosevelt) were built as "affordable" housing with City of Phoenix subsidies. That's about the best you can do as far as density without charging an arm and a leg. Mid rises and high rises are so capital intensive to build and maintain (think elevator repair etc) that unless the costs were absorbed over many years they will be marketed as luxury. Same thing is going on in Tempe.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Maroon197

Actually I'm really curious to see how it is all going to play out.

You have to understand these are new developments so the developers had to pay a lot for the land and then to develop the building. They can't provide inexpensive housing for doing that. Also, most new urban areas are expensive everywhere. It isn't intended for working class families.

And in some ways, I think that is a good thing. It's going to lure a lot of working young professionals with disposable income so that means the surrounding areas will acquire amenities to satisfy them. For a lot of young people, they don't want to move to the suburbs. They want to live in a dense urban area with amenities.

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by Maroon197

This stuff is happening in just about every city across America, including rust belt cities that were formerly left for dead. The problem is that almost none of the new development nationwide is really affordable. It's all the same generic "luxury" projects where you pay way too much for way too little in return. And the units/materials/finishes are often of somewhat questionable quality--they look amazing today, but may not really stand the test of time. I'm a huge proponent of walkable neighborhoods, but living in a generic modern "luxury" building near trendy new over-priced restaurants and expensive boutique stores is not my idea of an authentic walkable neighborhood.

I understand what you are saying but there aren't any "expensive boutique stores" or, for that matter, very much retail of any kind. That's one of the oddest characteristics of the housing boom. Urban form requires ground floor retail that often stays empty.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Maroon197

It will also be interesting to see what happens to urban public schools. Most are, to be blunt, terrible. That means that when young couples living the urban lifestyle start looking to have kids they either have to risk sending them to sub-par schools, shell out for expensive private school, or simply move to the suburbs where they have more space and better school systems. Maybe the inner city school systems will improve with changing demographics, but then what will that mean for suburban school systems? We just keep moving the problems around instead of actually addressing them.

You are forgetting about empty nesters. These are people like myself. I've got one more kid that I need to get off to college. Once he is out, it's just me and my wife. We don't need a large home and a large lot to maintain. We are thinking of moving to one of these condos in a few years. We enjoy dining out, going to professional sports game, being close to the airport for proximal travel. There are a lot of people in my situation who are looking to move into one of those condos for that reason.

Dense urban living isn't really for families and it never was intended for them. The problem with Phoenix is so many young people rent apartments because there aren't condos to buy in nice areas with immediate amenities. They either rent apartments located in trendy areas (Old Town) or they buy a cheap home in the suburbs. Having more urban living options means a lot of these young people will invest in a condo rather than paying Mark Taylor to rent an apartment.