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Yeah in my neighborhood the $10K number won't fly. People in the market I live in want pools...period. If houses without pools sit on the market (which they do), the prices of course have to go one way to sell. I'm not saying it's the same in Goodyear or Peoria or Phoenix, but where I live adding a pool adds considerable amount to the value above that number. So the point is, I would not rule out a house without a pool, if everything else is what they want. They might be able to get that house at the right price point to justify putting in their own pool the way they want it.
We have shopped and continue to stay abreast of the market in various parts of the valley and at a pretty widely varying price range as our situations and plans have changed. Looking closely at comps in the higher price ranges it's really hard to tell what makes the differences in values. I'm willing to believe that a house with a pool will sell faster in that market, which makes it more competitive for the buyer, so that the goal might just be to find a great house, any great house, in a great neighborhood in the areas asufan is talking about.
I'd agree that at the very least it may be an issue a buyer could use in bargaining--I mean, I would make a big deal of it if it were me, lol--but the current market appears to me to favor the seller, pool or no pool. There is also a substantial pool (har) of buyers who (think they) absolutely don't want a pool as well. I don't claim to understand them, but I know they're out there!! Houses that are properly priced are selling quickly.
For me, if I couldn't find a house I liked with a pool--or if I found a wonderful pool-less house in the perfect location--I would put in a pool. But I'd do so knowing that it's not one of the higher return improvements one can make on a home and that I'm paying some cash I won't likely see again to have exactly what I want.
In almost any market, OP is likely to see more (higher roi) return in upgrading a severely outdated kitchen or flooring than the pool. But some people dislike doing home improvement, and the benefit of a pool project is that it's outside and someone else is doing the whole thing. Whereas a kitchen remodel is a genuine PITA.
Another issue to consider, though, is that some existing pools ALSO have not been renovated in 20 years, and will soon be due for thousands of dollars worth of work. Unless the seller has had recent work done and can prove it, you may not know until it's too late. We felt it was worth it to pay the small cost to have the pool professionally inspected before purchse.
We have shopped and continue to stay abreast of the market in various parts of the valley and at a pretty widely varying price range as our situations and plans have changed. Looking closely at comps in the higher price ranges it's really hard to tell what makes the differences in values. I'm willing to believe that a house with a pool will sell faster in that market, which makes it more competitive for the buyer, so that the goal might just be to find a great house, any great house, in a great neighborhood in the areas asufan is talking about.
I'd agree that at the very least it may be an issue a buyer could use in bargaining--I mean, I would make a big deal of it if it were me, lol--but the current market appears to me to favor the seller, pool or no pool. There is also a substantial pool (har) of buyers who (think they) absolutely don't want a pool as well. I don't claim to understand them, but I know they're out there!! Houses that are properly priced are selling quickly.
For me, if I couldn't find a house I liked with a pool--or if I found a wonderful pool-less house in the perfect location--I would put in a pool. But I'd do so knowing that it's not one of the higher return improvements one can make on a home and that I'm paying some cash I won't likely see again to have exactly what I want.
In almost any market, OP is likely to see more (higher roi) return in upgrading a severely outdated kitchen or flooring than the pool. But some people dislike doing home improvement, and the benefit of a pool project is that it's outside and someone else is doing the whole thing. Whereas a kitchen remodel is a genuine PITA.
Another issue to consider, though, is that some existing pools ALSO have not been renovated in 20 years, and will soon be due for thousands of dollars worth of work. Unless the seller has had recent work done and can prove it, you may not know until it's too late. We felt it was worth it to pay the small cost to have the pool professionally inspected before purchse.
Yeah I follow the Real Estate market every single day for a living, that's how I feel so rock solid in my analysis of my local market. I don't see these kinds of values given to pools in the sub $450K market however. Get into the 8's and 9's and the buyers are paying so much more for pools. Again this is something that seems more recent to me, this wasn't the case even 4 years ago in my area. Maybe with the economy improving and so many more 401K millionaires, they are OK parting with more money for what they want.
And just to be clear, no one in their right mind is spending anywhere near as little as $25k on a pool installation package in the higher priced homes. A professional landscape package alone, without the pool, will run that much and more in the high end areas.
In a nutshell, if OP is seeking quotes for a pool, it helps to contact someone in the immediate area who is familiar with the type of soil & rock likely to be encountered and who can provide references in the general area too. Know what you want for the total package and get an actual quote (or 3), not a ballpark figure.
It would help to know where you're looking and in what general price range as I still don't know which locations in the valley are short on homes with pools--except inasmuch as the whole valley is short on inventory in general. But don't let that pressure you into buying something that doesn't meet your needs!
Yeah in my neighborhood the $10K number won't fly. People in the market I live in want pools...period. If houses without pools sit on the market (which they do), the prices of course have to go one way to sell. I'm not saying it's the same in Goodyear or Peoria or Phoenix, but where I live adding a pool adds considerable amount to the value above that number. So the point is, I would not rule out a house without a pool, if everything else is what they want. They might be able to get that house at the right price point to justify putting in their own pool the way they want it.
Yeah I follow the Real Estate market every single day for a living, that's how I feel so rock solid in my analysis of my local market. I don't see these kinds of values given to pools in the sub $450K market however. Get into the 8's and 9's and the buyers are paying so much more for pools. Again this is something that seems more recent to me, this wasn't the case even 4 years ago in my area. Maybe with the economy improving and so many more 401K millionaires, they are OK parting with more money for what they want.
I love that term. But the 401K millionaires haven't paid any taxes on the money yet (tax deferred). So they are really aren't millionaires yet. They need to share that bucket of $$'s with Uncle Sam.
I would agree with you that the euphoria is out of control. People are becoming irrational again. In PHX and in a $800K home, people expect a nice pool. I would. If it didn't have one, I'm not going to buy a home without a pool for a mere $15K less. I better be saving $40K (not $10K to $15K). So in my mind at that price point, I am sure you are spot on.
With all that said, I smell another correction coming in the not-so-distant future. IMHO, it's a great time to sell and not a good time to buy (unless you get too much for the home you are selling before you buy another that you are willing to pay top $$ on). In fact, I'm getting my MN house all polished up so that I can list it in the spring time. Then, I'll be sitting on the sidelines waiting for a nice correction. Later, I'll put those $$'s into a nicer spot in the PHX area. Read https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...gger-into-2018
lots of good feedback and that is what i was hoping for thumbs up on that I've read what everyone has posted.....my areas of interest after lots of research and back and fourth ended up being Goodyear,.Buckeye and Litchfield. price range is a max of $300,000 and as mentioned hoping for a pool at the top of our price range with the other option of no pool, a lower price range and extra funds to install one. If installing our own ends up being the route we go I don't need anything fancy just a basic pool that in time can be landscaped and added to slowly. Heading to town Thursday with a list of homes (some with pools some without but with what I think is enough yard space to add one) to look at knowing that list will probably be cut in half by then because some will be under contract but we shall see !!!
I love that term. But the 401K millionaires haven't paid any taxes on the money yet (tax deferred). So they are really aren't millionaires yet. They need to share that bucket of $$'s with Uncle Sam.
I would agree with you that the euphoria is out of control. People are becoming irrational again. In PHX and in a $800K home, people expect a nice pool. I would. If it didn't have one, I'm not going to buy a home without a pool for a mere $15K less. I better be saving $40K (not $10K to $15K). So in my mind at that price point, I am sure you are spot on.
With all that said, I smell another correction coming in the not-so-distant future. IMHO, it's a great time to sell and not a good time to buy (unless you get too much for the home you are selling before you buy another that you are willing to pay top $$ on). In fact, I'm getting my MN house all polished up so that I can list it in the spring time. Then, I'll be sitting on the sidelines waiting for a nice correction. Later, I'll put those $$'s into a nicer spot in the PHX area. Read https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...gger-into-2018
I don't look at the Real Estate market as "one big market". I don't know nearly enough about the economy in MN to say whether the market there is overextended or not, but you might be right. I do know that prices in the Phoenix are have skyrocketed in the past 5-6 years, but there has also been strong economic changes to sort of support that (it may be a little overextended at this point, however). I like to look at it more on the micro level, and by that I don't mean the Phoenix market, but the submarkets within the Phoenix market. I am in the South Chandler area and there has been great economic news recently, including the Deloitte news to locate 2,500 well paying jobs in Gilbert (literally right on the Chandler border), as well as the expanding Intel, Wells Fargo corporate campus, Orbital, etc (2 weeks ago Chandler was noted as the top city in the US for the class of 2018 to find a job, Scottsdale 2, Peoria 4, Gilbert 5 - beating out cities like San Francisco and Plano TX). https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/31/wall...this-year.html
So while there is certainly a "feel" that prices in the metro Phoenix area are a bit overextended, there is now at least some substantial economic support for those prices other than just the housing industry. If there is a correction here, it is probably in a persons best interest to strategically place themselves in one of the hotter jobs areas to weather the storm. I think if there is a correction, it will be nothing like 2006-2008, as the economy is not the same as then. It is certainly very tough on the first time buyer right now, which is a bit concerning about where the market will go as interest rates rise.
I don't look at the Real Estate market as "one big market". I don't know nearly enough about the economy in MN to say whether the market there is overextended or not, but you might be right. I do know that prices in the Phoenix are have skyrocketed in the past 5-6 years, but there has also been strong economic changes to sort of support that (it may be a little overextended at this point, however). I like to look at it more on the micro level, and by that I don't mean the Phoenix market, but the submarkets within the Phoenix market. I am in the South Chandler area and there has been great economic news recently, including the Deloitte news to locate 2,500 well paying jobs in Gilbert (literally right on the Chandler border), as well as the expanding Intel, Wells Fargo corporate campus, Orbital, etc (2 weeks ago Chandler was noted as the top city in the US for the class of 2018 to find a job, Scottsdale 2, Peoria 4, Gilbert 5 - beating out cities like San Francisco and Plano TX). https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/31/wall...this-year.html
So while there is certainly a "feel" that prices in the metro Phoenix area are a bit overextended, there is now at least some substantial economic support for those prices other than just the housing industry. If there is a correction here, it is probably in a persons best interest to strategically place themselves in one of the hotter jobs areas to weather the storm. I think if there is a correction, it will be nothing like 2006-2008, as the economy is not the same as then. It is certainly very tough on the first time buyer right now, which is a bit concerning about where the market will go as interest rates rise.
I hear what you are saying. Certainly there are several markets inside of the PHX market. Some will definately weather better thsn others. But substitutes will impact the entire region.
IMHO, "expensive" areas defined as $700k+ in PHX area will take more of a beating. Every $100k more is an even smaller buying pool. So if I have a spendy home , I predict it will fall faster and harder. We shall see.. I'm looking forward to being in a cash position when their is a correction.
IMHO, "expensive" areas defined as $700k+ in PHX area will take more of a beating. Every $100k more is an even smaller buying pool. So if I have a spendy home , I predict it will fall faster and harder. We shall see.. I'm looking forward to being in a cash position when their is a correction.
I disagree with this wholeheartedly. History has shown when there is a boom, the prices that increase the most are the starter homes, when there is a bust, those are the home prices that crash hardest. I watched as values skyrocketed at a certain lower price point for a few years while the luxury market only went up moderately. It was only recently that the luxury market got very hot, but it has still not matched the huge gains (percentage wise) of the entry level home. It used to be you could haggle more with an $800K+ home because there was less traffic compared to lower price points, now there's multiple offers in many cases.
The higher end buyer is less impacted by interest rates as well. If the cost of money goes up, you can bet many entry level buyers will be squeezed out, driving prices down to meet the effective demand. People in the higher end market typically have more savings and income and won't be as impacted, keeping the prices more stable than the lower end. Just my educated opinion.
This is not to say I agree with a major correction at all. I am holding onto my rentals and don't plan to liquidate soon unless prices go out of this world.
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But the 401K millionaires haven't paid any taxes on the money yet (tax deferred). So they are really aren't millionaires yet. They need to share that bucket of $$'s with Uncle Sam. 
I better be saving $40K (not $10K to $15K). So in my mind at that price point, I am sure you are spot on. 
