Basis Elem vs Knox Academy for a GT kid. (Phoenix: renting, home)

[PHX_Move]

Looking for some guidance/input.

My elementary school going kid attends Gifted and Talented program in the state where we live currently (not AZ).

Soon we will move to Phoenix and are searching for a public school with a self contained GT program.
Any school / neighborhood is OK as long as the school is good and provides self contained GT program and not a pull-out program.

Looks like Knox Gifted Academy suits us well but very few online reviews available currently and not providing enough information to get an idea and decide.

Can someone please provide some guidance/input on KGA, their experience if any and if there are any similar public schools in Phoenix area.

Also can someone compare Knox Gifted Academy vs Basis Schools for a GT kid ?

We know both Knox and Basis have long waiting list and looks like we are late for this school year (2019-20) but just in case if we get lucky.

Thanks in advance.

[KurtAZ]

If I remember correctly...after both of our kids were extended invitations to KGA...your child will need to take the CATS exam to qualify for the program. They used to have CATS programs at most of the elementary schools but they were consolidated into KGA a few years ago. That being said...CATS was hit and miss for a lot of students, some excelled in the program, others came back to regular school as (at the time) our home elementary was almost/just as good as their program without the added hassle.

This may have changed...I know our home elementary has declined over the past few years as it focuses primarily on their Mandarin program and the students NOT in that program feel sidelined. This is a whole other subject but I am just glad that our kids are finally out of that school.

CUSD also has the Accelerated Jr High program at Basha HS and some pretty good Honors/AP/IB programs in High School.

BASIS? Some people love it, others do not...again, this is going to rely on your child's preferred method of learning. BASIS is a charter...so they can pick and choose whom they let in (they have a lottery for admissions) by weeding out those that do not fit their style of teaching. Basically if your student is not keeping up with their program, they will drop them. Parents I know with students at BASIS spend a LOT of their time with tutors and supplementing class time to help their student keep up. Personally, we felt that a kid is only a kid once and putting that kind of pressure on them at an early age just didn't seem worth it. If extra curricular activities/programs are of interest to your student, I would take a close look at those.

It really is going to come down to how your child learns. Other charters to look at would be Great Hearts Academies, Chandler Prep or one of the CTAs.

[kent_moore]

2018 Average Test Scores
Knox Gifted Academy - 99.1%
BASIS Scottsdale - 98.3%

Not much difference so I would still go with BASIS. They are nationally recognized than KGA. Besides, what is your option for your kid in HS? BASIS is K-12, KGA is only K-6.

[grmi66]

BASIS parent here - the rumors about churn and burn are true. My child told me that over 50% of the classmates he had in 6th grade were gone by 10th grade. If they like a challenge, BASIS is a good school and when they say that 20% of their grads get into elite colleges they are accurate. Out of 50 students in my child's graduating class in May they had one appointment to the Naval Academy, 3 to actual Ivy League schools, another 10-12 to places like Stanford, U of Chicago and everyone else got into honors programs at ASU, U of A, NAU or California schools.

What my child told me is that a quite a few students will stay at BASIS until 10th grade and then with an eye to class rankings transfer to their neighborhood high school. At BASIS they may rank 25th out of 75 students, but go over to their local high school and they just became the class valedictorian.

BASIS is not for everyone, but as an option for our family it worked out great. Both children got full ride academic scholarships.

[exit2lef]

The Madison school district in north central Phoenix has a standalone G&T program known as REACH:

https://madisonaz.org/why-madison/si...highly-gifted/

It's offered at Madison Heights for the elementary years and Madison No. 1 for middle school. I know several parents with children enrolled in this program and their impressions are generally quite favorable.

[KurtAZ]

Originally Posted by kent_moore

2018 Average Test Scores
Knox Gifted Academy - 99.1%
BASIS Scottsdale - 98.3%

Not much difference so I would still go with BASIS. They are nationally recognized than KGA. Besides, what is your option for your kid in HS? BASIS is K-12, KGA is only K-6.

KGA to Accelerated Middle School to AP/IB/Dual Enrollment classes in HS. Or go to BASIS. You have to remember though that most GT programs aren't just about academic rigor.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by grmi66

BASIS parent here - the rumors about churn and burn are true. My child told me that over 50% of the classmates he had in 6th grade were gone by 10th grade. If they like a challenge, BASIS is a good school and when they say that 20% of their grads get into elite colleges they are accurate. Out of 50 students in my child's graduating class in May they had one appointment to the Naval Academy, 3 to actual Ivy League schools, another 10-12 to places like Stanford, U of Chicago and everyone else got into honors programs at ASU, U of A, NAU or California schools.

What my child told me is that a quite a few students will stay at BASIS until 10th grade and then with an eye to class rankings transfer to their neighborhood high school. At BASIS they may rank 25th out of 75 students, but go over to their local high school and they just became the class valedictorian.

BASIS is not for everyone, but as an option for our family it worked out great. Both children got full ride academic scholarships.

As you mentioned, considering 50% get "cut" from the 6th to the 10th grade, many students were not able to handle to pace. I think it would be fair to assume a lot of students in the last quartile are simply above average students that survived.

I bet the students that bailed in the 10th grade are pointing to an outlier or two valedictorian examples. This assumes that PHX HS is 10th-12th grade. If HIS is 9th-12th, I call B.S. Because the top graduates at nearly any big HS will have close to perfect HS transcripts: plus they took all of the harder classes (schools normally have a higher weighted average for advanced classes). i.e. BASIS like classes all along the way. Because when you are dealing with a large high school that graduates several hundred students, there are going to be some top notch students. They simply won't be as concentrated as a BASIS program.

In our sons case where the school was considered to be a below average MN high school, of the 800 graduates, the top dozen are extremely motivated brainiacs that are often carasmatic. i.e. the whole package. Our son graduated at the top of his HS and went off to a tier one college. That top ranking continued in college. And he went to the #1 ranked medical school and is testing at the very top on medical exams (STEP1 and STEP2). The high school in itself, the college, and medical school wasn't the key reason. Rather gene pool, parenting, and challenging them all along the way. Hell, it could have been home school. So it's my hypothesis that the BASIS rigor cannot round up the #39 ranked 9th grader to become #1 ranked (or even #10) in a larger HS. Because #1 at ___________ large HS could very well be #1-10 at BASIS. They simply didn't apply or win the slot.

I agree with your point that where you get into college often depends where you went to HS. That's because of grade inflation. If you graduate in the top 10 of a top ranked HS, college admissions can easily know what that means so long as you have the rest of the package. Additionally, top rank HS's counselors often intentionally develop relationships with college admissions. Relationships always matter.

[Hal Roach]

BASIS is coming to Bangkok this fall, so it appears that they are going international. I used to sub at ATS and it was impressive, and I had a lot of experience at Madison #1. They are stingier than a tailor shop, but it was top notch by AZ standards. There seemed to be many ASU grads teaching there, and TBH, they were often miles ahead of the NAU grads I worked with in the western part of the state. BASIS seems way too serious for me, and just another example of the best schools not being the best places to work. Depending on your major, an Ivy League education can almost be a red flag. It will be interesting to see what kind of people they get to teach in BKK.

[grmi66]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

As you mentioned, considering 50% get "cut" from the 6th to the 10th grade, many students were not able to handle to pace. I think it would be fair to assume a lot of students in the last quartile are simply above average students that survived.

I bet the students that bailed in the 10th grade are pointing to an outlier or two valedictorian examples. This assumes that PHX HS is 10th-12th grade. If HIS is 9th-12th, I call B.S. Because the top graduates at nearly any big HS will have close to perfect HS transcripts: plus they took all of the harder classes (schools normally have a higher weighted average for advanced classes). i.e. BASIS like classes all along the way. Because when you are dealing with a large high school that graduates several hundred students, there are going to be some top notch students. They simply won't be as concentrated as a BASIS program.

In our sons case where the school was considered to be a below average MN high school, of the 800 graduates, the top dozen are extremely motivated brainiacs that are often carasmatic. i.e. the whole package. Our son graduated at the top of his HS and went off to a tier one college. That top ranking continued in college. And he went to the #1 ranked medical school and is testing at the very top on medical exams (STEP1 and STEP2). The high school in itself, the college, and medical school wasn't the key reason. Rather gene pool, parenting, and challenging them all along the way. Hell, it could have been home school. So it's my hypothesis that the BASIS rigor cannot round up the #39 ranked 9th grader to become #1 ranked (or even #10) in a larger HS. Because #1 at ___________ large HS could very well be #1-10 at BASIS. They simply didn't apply or win the slot.

I agree with your point that where you get into college often depends where you went to HS. That's because of grade inflation. If you graduate in the top 10 of a top ranked HS, college admissions can easily know what that means so long as you have the rest of the package. Additionally, top rank HS's counselors often intentionally develop relationships with college admissions. Relationships always matter.

Guess my teen son paints with a wide brush, so asked him to elaborate on the dropout rate around grade 9/10. Some by that age develop an interest in the arts and Basis doesn't offer much. His school has an orchestra, but who wants to play in an orchestra with 10 other people? Or they like drama and want to take part in larger productions.

Others just suffer from general burnout and want to have a regular high school experience and have the time to do things like date or get a part time job.

Friends of my son spent one summer growing rapidly and discovered that they are strong enough and tall enough to play basketball or football at the local high school.

Then yes, there were a few that moved from middle of the pack at Basis to valedictorian. But generally it was some scholarships in Arizona are only offered to the top 5% or top 10% in class rankings. Middle of the pack at Basis puts you in the top 10% of most neighborhood high schools easily.

[KurtAZ]

As an aside...most High Schools don't have valedictorians anymore. Cause it is not PC to single out the top performer in a class...it makes those that didn't do as well sad and need a puppy.