The future of public transportation in the Valley... (Phoenix, Tucson: 2014, how much)

[footballer0607]

Hello,
I moved to the Phoenix area from the San Francisco Bay Area in early November. This is my second go-round living and working in Arizona, as from June thru November of 2014 I was in Tucson. The past decade has seen me bounce around the country for both work and school (born and raised in the Bay Area, lived there intermittently as well as completing job assignments in Portland, Chicago, and in the South as well as the aforementioned time in Tucson and graduate school in Los Angeles). So far, I like Phoenix, as it seems to have everything a young professional would need without being overwhelming in the way a Los Angeles or NYC can be.

The one gripe I have about the place is the relative lack of public transportation. During my time in Portland I seldom had to drive to work; in Chicago, I literally NEVER did. In Phoenix, I've ridden the light rail a grand total of 5 times to go to sporting events or other outings, as it doesn't go anywhere near where I work. Therefore, I have to ask: how much does Valley Metro plan to expand the light rail within the next decade or so? From what I understand, Scottsdale has nixed the idea of it ever coming to their city, but why exactly?

I've noticed that Valley Metro has park-and-rides along with Express Bus routes that go to the State Capitol and other places (I live in Tempe). Is it possible that, in the future, some type of commuter rail could come to the valley in place such as along the I-10 corridor out to Goodyear and Avondale, or along the 60 out to Mesa or Gilbert? Or perhaps, a BRT (bus rapid transit) line? What I mean by bus rapid transit is, a system that functions much like a light rail, with stations and roads closed off to other types of traffic? I mean, there's only so much the I-10 and I-17 can be widened...

[Pink Jazz]

As for putting commuter rail on freeways, ADOT would have the final say on such projects since they own the right-of-way. The same goes with putting a light rail line or BRT on Grand Avenue.

[observer53]

The topic of Scottsdale and light rail has been discussed a lot here, including recently: https://www.city-data.com/forum/phoe...ight-rail.html

[exit2lef]

If the complaint is that transit doesn't go near where you work, maybe the problem is as much, if not more, with your employer's site selection as it with Valley Metro's route network. Right now, there's tremendous residential development going on along the light rail corridor, but job sprawl continues to be a stubborn disease, just as it is throughout much of the nation (even Chicago). I don't know how specialized and competitive your line of work is, but if you have a choice of employers, access via multiple modes of transport is certainly something to keep in mind in deciding which job to accept. I know I've become spoiled by my light rail commute. It would take a lot for me to ever contemplate driving a long way to work again.

In answer to some of your specific questions, Valley Metro's current and future projects are outlined here:

https://www.valleymetro.org/projects

Light rail is currently being expanded to the south and the west in Phoenix. Tempe is building a downtown streetcar, and there's consideration of extending that to west Mesa.

Scottsdale is an improbable candidate for light rail due to the city's conservative leanings, ambivalence towards density and development, and exaggerated fears of crime. Maybe Scottsdale Road will see BRT someday, but even that would generate tremendous controversy.

There is some consideration of BRT within Phoenix city limits. Possible corridors include Thomas Road, Bell Road, 35th Avenue, and 19th Avenue. It's also possible that part of the light rail extension intended for I-10 west will be built as BRT instead.

Commuter rail would complement light rail by providing connections between Phoenix and its outer suburbs, as well as service between Phoenix and Tucson. There have been some studies done by ADOT to evaluate potential routes, but there are no current plans to build commuter rail. Because commuter rail would travel through two or three counties, it would require advocacy by leaders at the state level. Unfortunately, neither our governor nor the legislature have shown any interest so far. To be fair, neither have their Democratic opponents in recent elections. Until someone at the Capitol leads the way, commuter rail will be an unfulfilled promise.

With all that in mind, if public transit matters to you, I'd suggest considering places to live and work within the three cities that have invested the most: Phoenix, Tempe, and Mesa. Sometimes, you have to come to transit and much as transit comes to you.

[locolife]

OP- Keep in mind all of these cities you reference are much, much older than Phoenix and grew up in a much different era when public transport was a much larger way of life for daily commuting. As few as 70 years ago Phoenix was basically a mid-size town with 107K people by 2000 it had exploded to 1.3M and of course today sits around 1.75M. By comparison the Bay Area had nearly 5 million people in 1950 (SF had around 800K roughly the same population as today).



Because Phoenix grew up in the automobile era it's setup completely different than any of the cities you're comparing to, this has been discussed countless times and there's plenty of good local history books. Light Rail has done pretty well here and is going to be expanded quite a bit, you can read about the work MAG is doing on commuter lines here.
https://www.valleymetro.org/sites/de...muter_Rail.pdf

[jnojr]

Originally Posted by footballer0607

Hello,

The one gripe I have about the place is the relative lack of public transportation. During my time in Portland I seldom had to drive to work; in Chicago, I literally NEVER did.

It's easy to make public transportation work in a dense, old city. In a more spread-out city... how do you do that? How do I leave my house when I'm ready, be taken directly to where I need to go, and then be picked up when I'm ready?

Frankly, the day of mass intra-city transportation is coming to an end. There will be self-driving cars that do exactly what I said above. No more buses, no more trolleys. "Public transportation" would likely be addressed with subsidies for those services... it's incredibly inefficient to maintain a bus system, for example, which is used precisely by people who can't afford to use it.

Simply put, I will not be participating in any system that has me standing in lines, waiting, being driven all over the place, etc. My time is valuable. You cannot get single drivers off the road by fiat... you must provide a real alternative, and buses and trolleys aren't that.

[Hal Roach]

Portlandia? Lol.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by jnojr

It's easy to make public transportation work in a dense, old city. In a more spread-out city... how do you do that? How do I leave my house when I'm ready, be taken directly to where I need to go, and then be picked up when I'm ready?

Frankly, the day of mass intra-city transportation is coming to an end. There will be self-driving cars that do exactly what I said above. No more buses, no more trolleys. "Public transportation" would likely be addressed with subsidies for those services... it's incredibly inefficient to maintain a bus system, for example, which is used precisely by people who can't afford to use it.

Simply put, I will not be participating in any system that has me standing in lines, waiting, being driven all over the place, etc. My time is valuable. You cannot get single drivers off the road by fiat... you must provide a real alternative, and buses and trolleys aren't that.

Sorta. They are that but not for you apparently.

I’m not sure I buy the dystopian all driverless car future either. I could not imagine needing to pay for a driverless ride just to get out of my neighborhood each day without the freedoms operating the vehicle provides. Just sounds miserable

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

Sorta. They are that but not for you apparently.

I’m not sure I buy the dystopian all driverless car future either. I could not imagine needing to pay for a driverless ride just to get out of my neighborhood each day without the freedoms operating the vehicle provides. Just sounds miserable

Exactly, I love driving my Camaro SS, I don't want that taken away from me to be shuttled in some electric self driving Prius or whatever

[Voebe]

Originally Posted by footballer0607

Hello,
I moved to the Phoenix area from the San Francisco Bay Area in early November. This is my second go-round living and working in Arizona, as from June thru November of 2014 I was in Tucson. The past decade has seen me bounce around the country for both work and school (born and raised in the Bay Area, lived there intermittently as well as completing job assignments in Portland, Chicago, and in the South as well as the aforementioned time in Tucson and graduate school in Los Angeles). So far, I like Phoenix, as it seems to have everything a young professional would need without being overwhelming in the way a Los Angeles or NYC can be.

The one gripe I have about the place is the relative lack of public transportation. During my time in Portland I seldom had to drive to work; in Chicago, I literally NEVER did. In Phoenix, I've ridden the light rail a grand total of 5 times to go to sporting events or other outings, as it doesn't go anywhere near where I work. Therefore, I have to ask: how much does Valley Metro plan to expand the light rail within the next decade or so? From what I understand, Scottsdale has nixed the idea of it ever coming to their city, but why exactly?

I've noticed that Valley Metro has park-and-rides along with Express Bus routes that go to the State Capitol and other places (I live in Tempe). Is it possible that, in the future, some type of commuter rail could come to the valley in place such as along the I-10 corridor out to Goodyear and Avondale, or along the 60 out to Mesa or Gilbert? Or perhaps, a BRT (bus rapid transit) line? What I mean by bus rapid transit is, a system that functions much like a light rail, with stations and roads closed off to other types of traffic? I mean, there's only so much the I-10 and I-17 can be widened...

Nice post. How about becoming a public-transportation activist here?