House Flipper returning - how is the real estate market? (Phoenix: salon, loan)

[cmist]

Originally Posted by Winkelman

Many folks blame Realtors as a villian in the the whole credit and economic collapse. Home Flippers would be another. Obviously its not that simple but anyone who profited during the boom has been a scapegoat in its aftermath.

Hmmm... Well, EVERYONE was profiting on real estate when times were good. Including the average home owner who pulled money out of their homes like it was an ATM machine.... leaving them with no choice but to foreclose when they couldn't sell for their new higher balance.

Realistically, the banks were the only link in the chain that could have PREVENTED the collapse if they simply didn't loan money via crazy practices to anyone with a heartbeat, or if they didn't pressure appraisers to come up with numbers that would make the loan work regardless of no valid comps.

Flaky buyers and unscrupulous wannabe investors couldn't have existed if they weren't enabled by banks in the first place.

[Grannysroost]

Originally Posted by cmist

Hmmm... Well, EVERYONE was profiting on real estate when times were good. Including the average home owner who pulled money out of their homes like it was an ATM machine.... leaving them with no choice but to foreclose when they couldn't sell for their new higher balance.

Realistically, the banks were the only link in the chain that could have PREVENTED the collapse if they simply didn't loan money via crazy practices to anyone with a heartbeat, or if they didn't pressure appraisers to come up with numbers that would make the loan work regardless of no valid comps.

Flaky buyers and unscrupulous wannabe investors couldn't have existed if they weren't enabled by banks in the first place.

The buyers for the most part yes, but I am sure there were some, including some investors that weren't totally into the banks...maybe...Whether the banks allowed homeowners to ATM their house or not...in the end it was the homeowners greed that took the cash from the machine...right, wrong or indifferent...

[cmist]

Originally Posted by Grannysroost

The buyers for the most part yes, but I am sure there were some, including some investors that weren't totally into the banks...maybe...Whether the banks allowed homeowners to ATM their house or not...in the end it was the homeowners greed that took the cash from the machine...right, wrong or indifferent...

I don't know if you can call it greed though on the part of the homeowner. When someone tells you via an appraisal that your home is worth $300K, how many people are going to think its greedy to sell for what its worth?

Reality is the neighbors home just sold for $270K, but the bank appraises yours for $300K to entice you into a refinance. Are you greedy for accepting the offer or maybe the banks shouldn't have offered you 30K more than your neighbor with the same home.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Bill. There you go again; you assume. Just because I said that a company was going to drive by to get pictures of the house (which is part of their service) doesn't mean that I was saying you don't need to get into a home before you buy. (Psst.. The pictures help you understand the street appeal which is important to people who buy homes. Understanding what these homes look like takes time driving around. If it is ugly, I don't want to buy it. Hence the value to me.). So we "finally" agree that you need to get into a home before you buy? No we always agreed on that point!

You could have taken about 1500 words out of your 1600 word essay on why not to buy at an auction by saying: "the $3000 service takes care of a majority of the hassle of buying at an auction but it is still a lot of work. But don't forget, without getting into the home, there are HUGE rsk. Understanding the condition of the home has to be done quickly." That was all that needed to be added.

No one needed your information warning about foundation cracks, meth labs, mold issues, etc. That goes without saying.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill
This thread is about a person asking how the market is because he was interested in coming back here to invest.

Unfortunately, there are a few people who are constantly looking for an opportunity to bash realtors, and one who is always looking for a place where she can bash me in particular.


Winkelman wrote:

Many folks blame Realtors as a villian in the the whole credit and economic collapse. Home Flippers would be another. Obviously its not that simple but anyone who profited during the boom has been a scapegoat in its aftermath.
__________________________________________________ _________________________________

I have no problem what-so-ever with real estate agents in general. I only work with the best and their 7% fee is well worth it IMHO. But like any career, some are better than others. I don't have an issue with someone filling their "pipeline with leads". I do the same in my industry forcused forum. I think Phoenixxx (forget her exact handle) does a fantastic job of adding value on this forum without "commision breath".

When the market was crashing and some agents on this CD forum were saying buy-buy-buy month after month calling the bottom wrong sevevral times I would say that they were costing people big money. Certainly not me who forgot to write a common sense statement like you still need to inspect the home before you buy. When you call it wrong, it can be perceived that you are cheerleading for you own gain. I have a saying: Perception is reality.

Some of us can see an agenda more clearly than others thats all. I have more examples but it really doesn't matter I guess. Nothing more nothing less.

I say add value by not spooking people or telling people when to buy especially when that is not the function of an RE agent (IMHO anyways).

To be clear, I am speaking in general terms and abount no one in specific. So if the shoe fits, wear it it.

[Winkelman]

Originally Posted by cmist

Hmmm... Well, EVERYONE was profiting on real estate when times were good. Including the average home owner who pulled money out of their homes like it was an ATM machine.... leaving them with no choice but to foreclose when they couldn't sell for their new higher balance.
Realistically, the banks were the only link in the chain that could have PREVENTED the collapse if they simply didn't loan money via crazy practices to anyone with a heartbeat, or if they didn't pressure appraisers to come up with numbers that would make the loan work regardless of no valid comps.
Flaky buyers and unscrupulous wannabe investors couldn't have existed if they weren't enabled by banks in the first place.

It was just one giant ponzi scheme. As long as prices kept rising, it masked what a bad idea making these loans was. The home loan industry would be most to blame. Not just necessarily traditional banks. The Countrywide type companies.
And everyone involved, RE Agents, House Flippers, Appraisers, Mortgage companies, Banks, the feds lowering interest rates, they just all cashed in or looked other way. I agree without the bad loans being made, none of this would have happened.


Its amazing how inside the beltway "Wall Street Greed" and the bonuses of corporate executives is to blame for what happened. Even capitalism itself is a scapegoat. Wall street was just buying into what appeared to be profitable companies. Wall street did not make the loans. And whether one particular exec is getting a 50M bonus or a $5 one has no bearing on what happened.



To prevent a similar situation in the future? Require 20% down payment for home loans, forever. Not just until we start to boom again. And get the feds out of the loan business. And every other business for that matter.

[Winkelman]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Quote:



When the market was crashing and some agents on this CD forum were saying buy-buy-buy month after month calling the bottom wrong sevevral times I would say that they were costing people big money.

The National Association of Realtors was saying buy buy buy and calling the bottom wrong, not just the agents themselves. Many agents were just regurgitating the NAR's talking points.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by Potential_Landlord

Captain Bill:

Thanks for your kind reply to my landlording question. This begs another one: Why did you do it in the 70s and not now any more?

Also, we just got the RE newspaper the Russel Shaw group puts out every month. They cite the Cromford report by stating that in the sub-200k market SFH prices rose by 2% since April 2009 (which they declare as the bottom). Also when following the Case/Shiller Index you get the impression that SFH prices are on the rise again in the Phoenix area. Can you comment on the percentage?

Thanks, PL

PL, The bank prices have increased, while the short sale prices have been about the same. December and January are slow season months and January saw some increased listings, while the sales were still higher than last year.

I'm seeing more sales of property in the 300-500k range now in Val Vista Lakes where I live. That's due to the lowering of prices in that range.

Case/Shiller Index lags the market by 3 months. Cromford Report is daily on some of their reports and monthly on others. They are very comprehensive and reliable in my opinion.

To answer your question: In the 70's I rehabbed 4-plexes in Oakland, CA. At that time I was also flying for Pan Am, and was doing the work on my days off. I was also taking college courses in real estate and real estate investing.

It got to be too much for me and since flying was my career, I decided that I had to give up rehabbing. So I continued on with my flying career until retiring in 1992

During the rest of the time, I did continue studying real estate and bought and sold several investment homes on a part time basis.

We moved to Gilbert in 2004 and sold our California house in 2007. I had begun to study real estate again because I planned on investing in commercial properties and selling businesses. In May 2007 I got my real estate license and began a full time study program, (and that continues today). That enabled me to gain the knowledge I needed to help buyers, and to help myself in the rehab business

I also got my Business and Commercial designations. The commercial designation would have allowed me to sell or invest in commercial buildings and multi-family of 5+ units.

But later I decided that I preferred working in the single family home arena. Part of the reason I prefer SFR over multi-family is that it's so difficult to access the multi-family unless it's fully vacant, and usually there are some tenants in there. When tenants are in place it's more difficult to rehab.

I finally narrowed my focus down to rehabbing single family homes and working with a few buyers, which is what I do today,

[Beena]

I would like to propose February as "short post month".

If you find yourself to be a wordy sumabish, how bout you don't post until March?

[adolpho]

Originally Posted by Winkelman

It was just one giant ponzi scheme. As long as prices kept rising, it masked what a bad idea making these loans was. The home loan industry would be most to blame. Not just necessarily traditional banks. The Countrywide type companies.
And everyone involved, RE Agents, House Flippers, Appraisers, Mortgage companies, Banks, the feds lowering interest rates, they just all cashed in or looked other way. I agree without the bad loans being made, none of this would have happened.


Its amazing how inside the beltway "Wall Street Greed" and the bonuses of corporate executives is to blame for what happened. Even capitalism itself is a scapegoat. Wall street was just buying into what appeared to be profitable companies. Wall street did not make the loans. And whether one particular exec is getting a 50M bonus or a $5 one has no bearing on what happened.



To prevent a similar situation in the future? Require 20% down payment for home loans, forever. Not just until we start to boom again. And get the feds out of the loan business. And every other business for that matter.

That's what they do in Hong Kong. It was minimum 30%; and they lowered it to twenty. Prices are a lot closer to 1000 Dollars psf, than 100.
Think you can trust B of A more than HSBC?