Help me understand photographic workflow (filters, Nikon, lens, processing)
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I constantly see the term "workflow" applied to image post-processing and don't think I yet understand what that means. Right now my post-processing procedure consists of opening a RAW file, adjusting various levels until I'm happy with the result, and possibly using photoshop to blend various processing efforts of the same file together (i.e. to bring out the foreground and background separately). On difficult photographs this can be an involved process that takes hours, but on others it doesn't involve much more than a few or no changes in the "As Shot" and standard settings.
Is there more that I should be doing? Is there some way to know what needs to be done to improve photographs? My guess is that this is something that takes years of experience to know how to do well, so I would be quite appreciative of any books that people could recommend so that I can learn more.
When I think of workflow I think of the overall process from downloading the picture to posting it on the web or preparing it for print and all the steps in between. It is a superset of post processing which includes backing up images and offsite storage.
Where I spend most of my time is the post processing part which I think you are referring to. And yes, that takes years of trial and error finding a process which works for you and your style of photography. Working in the digital darkroom is very much an art form as well a science. There are many techniques which I've learned over the years which contribute to making a good image. For Ansel Adams it was a chemical process, but none the less a very important part of his art form.
I think tutorials, books and instructional vidoes all can be usefull. I typically learn by doing. So I like to try something in particular like a digital blend, then look for tutorials or ask the pros how they do it on some of the forums I frequent. Here is one from a friend of mine which really clicked with me: Jesse Speer Photography : Digital Darkroom: Graduated ND Filter (http://www.jessespeer.com/making_the_image/2004_0712_chasm/index.html - broken link)
And here is a great tutorial for using masks to separate one part of the image from another:
The thing is everyone has a different learning style. Maybe you learn more by reading a book on post processing. Or maybe a combination of all the above. But how much or little you do including your typical steps will really vary greatly form the next guy. The two ends of the spectrum on this are the guys that simply shoot jpg and they are done. Then there is the person who shoots in RAW mode, converts to TIFF, uses a separate application for a complete sharpening workflow, then brings it back into photoshop for others adjustments (levels, blends, masks, dodge, burn, curves, shadow/highlight recovery, lens distortion correction, etc... Then out to noise reduction software as needed. Then a second final sharpening after all other adjustments. Then back to photoshop to convert from TIFF to jpg. And you have a whole lot of variation in between. I fall somewhere in the middle of this spectrum as my workflow has evolved over the years and I learn something new. Lastly it varies a lot depending on the subject matter which normally dictates how much post processing is required.
My 2c FWIW,
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 06-15-2010 at 11:35 PM..
I constantly see the term "workflow" applied to image post-processing and don't think I yet understand what that means. Right now my post-processing procedure consists of opening a RAW file, adjusting various levels until I'm happy with the result, and possibly using photoshop to blend various processing efforts of the same file together (i.e. to bring out the foreground and background separately). On difficult photographs this can be an involved process that takes hours, but on others it doesn't involve much more than a few or no changes in the "As Shot" and standard settings.
Is there more that I should be doing? Is there some way to know what needs to be done to improve photographs? My guess is that this is something that takes years of experience to know how to do well, so I would be quite appreciative of any books that people could recommend so that I can learn more.
Thanks for your help.
Your workflow is fine for what you want to do with your photos. But lets say that there is another person who does the same you do, and then decides to add layers to achieve a certain effect on the photo. That's another type of workflow. Then you may have another person who does not like or have the time to go through all the hassle, and instead buys a few actions or filters he or she can use to do all the work within a second or two. This is another type of workflow. Some actions can be used to turn color into a perfect B&W photo, while another may be used to smooth skin, to create infrared effects, and so forth.
When I think of workflow I think of the overall process from downloading the picture to posting it on the web or preparing it for print and all the steps in between. It is a superset of post processing which includes backing up images and offsite storage.
I agree with this. A good workflow is more about maximizing your efficiency of organization and processing. Post processing is the part of your workflow involving the actual editing of your images.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrandom
Is there more that I should be doing? Is there some way to know what needs to be done to improve photographs?
It sounds like you're talking more about post processing than workflow. What kind of editing an image "needs" really depends on the image itself and the photographer. What looks perfect to you may not be what someone else would do with it - and that's okay, there shouldn't be only ONE way for an image to turn out. Granted, there are rights and wrongs of technicalities but when it comes to what you choose to do with your image, it's completely subjective. Are there other methods out there that you might like better? Maybe but no one can tell you that because we can't tell you what you do or don't like. Some people like HDR, some people don't. Some people like to edit heavy, some people like to keep it light.
And don't forget that post processing also depends on the image itself. What I do with one picture may be completely different to what I do with another. There simply is no set way to edit every or any one image.
Our workflow can range from soooooo easy if we shoot jpeg or very complex if we decide to shoot raw and hdr...
typically we shoot raw . if we shot bracketed shots for hdr we will pull out all the bracketed shots into their own folder. ..using nikon nx2 ill convert the raw files into 16 bit tiffs then batch the entire load of them in photomatix and apply a medium level hdr setting to the entire load...
ill let the batch run and delete all i dont like.. the ones i do like will be brought back into capture nx2 for editing... some i may re-do in photomatix individually if i like the look so i can refine it. hdr's have to be edited as the hdr is very compressed and has to be re-expanded to look really nice. just accepting them the way the hdr software outputs them isnt that great.
they need contrast and black and white points usually to re-expand.
the non hdr raw are opened in nikon capture nx2,
ill check exposures , apply nik color filters , make local adjustements to color,contrast ,saturation and brightness in spots , crop, apply a round of capture sharpening and save...capture sharpening wipes away the effect of digitals anti-aliasing filter and is very lightly done.
depending if they are being uploaded or printed they will receive a round of output sharpening..
my sharpening routine is very different depending if its for print or uploading...
when all is done ill re-size for uploading and make a batch of jpegs which ill upload to my site and then delete those jpegs while keeping our raw..
Last edited by mathjak107; 06-16-2010 at 06:31 AM..
Location: Splitting time between Dayton, NJ and Needmore, PA
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I agree PA2UK's comments that you are looking more at post-processing than the overall workflow.
In my mind, workflow is a systematic series of processes to prepare, capture, develop, sort, organize, export and backup your digital photos. For me, the processes are dependent on the location and the topic or subject of the photo shoot as well as the "final" purpose or use for the photo. For example, shooting sports is going to require a different set of processes than shooting a wedding or shooting a waterfall. And each process is going to be distinctive based upon the location and the end use.
Last year, I actually wrote a couple of blog entries about my workflow for shooting a football game where I was fortunate enough to get on the field as opposed to shooting "from the stands." You may find it to be a helpful read in terms of understanding what I mean about workflow as opposed to "just" post-processing. Certainly what I wrote is far from the end-all and be-all of shooting sports, but I think it will give you an idea of what I am referring to as workflow.
I agree PA2UK's comments that you are looking more at post-processing than the overall workflow.
In my mind, workflow is a systematic series of processes to prepare, capture, develop, sort, organize, export and backup your digital photos. For me, the processes are dependent on the location and the topic or subject of the photo shoot as well as the "final" purpose or use for the photo. For example, shooting sports is going to require a different set of processes than shooting a wedding or shooting a waterfall. And each process is going to be distinctive based upon the location and the end use.
Last year, I actually wrote a couple of blog entries about my workflow for shooting a football game where I was fortunate enough to get on the field as opposed to shooting "from the stands." You may find it to be a helpful read in terms of understanding what I mean about workflow as opposed to "just" post-processing. Certainly what I wrote is far from the end-all and be-all of shooting sports, but I think it will give you an idea of what I am referring to as workflow.
That's your individual workflow. To another person his or her workflow may be completely different. For a general idea of workflows, it's explained in the link I posted above. The fact is that some photographers don't even process their photos, but hand the camera to another person to do the rest.
That's your individual workflow. To another person his or her workflow may be completely different. For a general idea of workflows, it's explained in the link I posted above. The fact is that some photographers don't even process their photos, but hand the camera to another person to do the rest.
Yes, thats the point I was trying to get at as well. I remember being a NOOB and being quite overwelmed by ppl's elaborate workflows thinking I better get with it. But to go from zero to 60 is really counterproductive and becomes unnceccesarily burdensome.
The key is to only do as much as you think is necessary for any particular image and no more. Then look at it and ask yourself if you are satisfied or even possibly others photographers for a critique. With critiques you will recieve much more targeted feedback which you can then decide to act upon or not in refining your image even more. I have found constructive criticism one of the best ways to grow in my post processing skills. I have also learned to always filter such critiques through my own vision, style and look I am trying to portray. This is important since a big part of it is an art form with many interpretations.
Yes, thats the point I was trying to get at as well. I remember being a NOOB and being quite overwelmed by ppl's elaborate workflows thinking I better get with it. But to go from zero to 60 is really counterproductive and becomes unnceccesarily burdensome.
The key is to only do as much as you think is necessary for any particular image and no more. Then look at it and ask yourself if you are satisfied or even possibly others photographers for a critique. With critiques you will recieve much more targeted feedback which you can then decide to act upon or not in refining your image even more. I have found constructive criticism one of the best ways to grow in my post processing skills. I have also learned to always filter such critiques through my own vision, style and look I am trying to portray. This is important since a big part of it is an art form with many interpretations.
Location: Splitting time between Dayton, NJ and Needmore, PA
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So we're all agreeing to the same point, just using different words.
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We are on the same track.
