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Once at a Museum in Madrid, Spain where I was somehow oblivious to the dozens of signs that said "No Flash Photography." Absolutely my fault.
The other time was a few months ago in Boston. I tried to snap some photos of one of my favorite art deco high-rises in town. A security guard told me I couldn't do that.
We actually debated this (friendly debate... I told him I wouldn't take the picture but...) as I thought I could take a picture of anything (people, buildings, etc) if I'm standing on a public street or sidewalk. He said no, I can't and listed some pretty reasonable explanations (i.e. peeping tom problems, terror threats, etc). Well, I did some research at home, including calling the building in question. There are some gray areas. Many buildings (in Boston, anyway) own small stretches of the sidewalk adjacent to the building. These boundaries are marked by either different sidewalk surface (i.e. smaller tiles than the public sidewalk) or a thin (usually engraved with the company's name) metal strip running in the seam between two sidewalk tiles. The building I tried to photograph had a metal seam down the sidewalk marking the property line. Of course, if I took a picture within that seam, I'd be shooting from private property which is illegal without permission. I CAN, however, shoot from outside that seam. I have spoken with the guard about this and he checked with management and they agree.
I still don't know how it works with residential property. We have a lot of historic homes up here in residential neighborhoods. While it's not an issue in the central neighborhoods (Back Bay, Beacon Hill, North End, etc) as so many people walk these streets, it can become an issue in more suburban and rural areas. I generally like to ask permission to photograph a house, but it's not always possible. I'm still not 100% sure if it's legal to take a photo of a private home even from a public sidewalk or street. I've heard many conflicting reports.
I'd say that if you have an opportunity, ask the owners (even if you don't NEED to). It can really help avoid problems. You don't always have that opportunity, but when it arises, it can't hurt to ask.
Wow, I can't believe anyone would be stopped from taking a photo of a building or the outside of a house while standing on a public street. I pull over and take photos of houses (and farms and churches) and even airplanes all of the time. I don't have to get close to them, though, to do it so maybe that's why no one has bothered me. The problem I run into is overhead wires in the shot not people saying I can't do it. I know you aren't supposed to photograph the Amish.
I have been in the car with someone who was stopped for taking photographs, though. I was with my dad and some friends visiting from Russia. We were showing them various parts of D.C., and they decided to go to the Pentagon area where there's a mall whose name I can't remember right now. Obviously we didn't go to it, just near it. But even driving in a parking lot near the Pentagon, our Russian friends took some photos on their digital camera. Some cops pulled us over and asked them to delete the photos. My dad told them that was crazy and they shouldn't have to delete them, so the cops asked to just look through the photos they had just taken to make sure none of them were suspicious in any way.
I would never ask somebody to photography their home. You don't need their permission, and there's no need to call attention to yourself. It is perfectly legal to photograph anything you want as long as you're taking the picture from public property. That includes homes, people and even children. If you see it, you can photograph it. The overzealous cops, security guards and property owners need to be schooled on this. I say, when in doubt, just take the shot.
I understand your thought process, but I just see it as a courtesy, especially in quieter areas. Like I said, in central urban neighborhoods, it's not so much of an issue. However, in some of the quieter rural areas it leads to suspicion if you're just snapping photos of homes. I have a keen interest in architecture as well as photography. Many people don't understand that and don't see me taking pictures of a nice Victorian home the same way I do. People often expect the worst of other people so talking to them often puts their mind at ease.
Like you, I know many of the rules about public places. Still, many people have no idea. I won't go bang on doors just to ask someone if I can stand on the sidewalk and snap a photo. However, if someone is outside mowing the grass or watering the plants, walking the dog, etc when I want to snap a picture I may introduce myself not out of necessity, but out of courtesy. As I said before, I don't NEED to, but I'd do it.
I think property owners, cops and security guards need to better understand their authority, but I don't see how challenging them helps. How often to you challenge a cop or security guard's knowledge of the law and succeed on the spot? Many of these guys are on power trips to begin with and making them look stupid doesn't help your case regardless of how incorrect they may be. Sure you can win a follow up investigation but provoking with argument on site rarely bodes well. If you try to "school" them about the law, they'll probably "school" you physically.
From my experience, being polite and going just a little bit out of your way (like I said, I'm not looking up property owners in the phone book to ask their permission... just asking if an easy opportunity arises) can go a LONG way to peaceful understanding. I'd rather call attention to myself by being courteous to a property owner than call attention to myself by being shady or arguing with cops/security guards/ home owners.
I think property owners, cops and security guards need to better understand their authority, but I don't see how challenging them helps.
I never said to confront anyone, in fact quite the opposite. But you deleted that part of my quote for some reason. Here is what I said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog
Now I'm not recommending you confront anyone. If a security guard approaches you on a public sidewalk and tells you to stop, you have to decide for yourself if you want to stand your ground or walk away. That's a personal choice you have to make. Know your rights and then make an intelligent choice as you see fit.
I never said to confront anyone, in fact quite the opposite. But you deleted that part of my quote for some reason. Here is what I said.
I never accused you of suggesting the we confront anyone. I know very well what you said. You said to make an intelligent choice. My post was simply highlighting my opinion that it's rarely worth it to "choose" to confront person in authority even with the law at your side.
I asked questions when security told me not to shoot (but didn't challenge him), agreed not to shoot, and then did my own research later on. Turns out we both were right. Had I asserted that I was on public property (which the area of the sidewalk I was standing on really wasn't) and put up an argument I would have lost.
In a nutshell, I feel differently than you. I really don't see how it can hurt to politely ask permission even if you really don't need to. You can avoid unnecessary trouble that way. Don't kill yourself to go out of your way, but if there's an opportunity, what's the problem?
I always have a few of them with me to hand out. Another piece of info I have if I'm in NYC is a copy of NYPD Order 14. It helps with regard to shooting famous landmarks, bridges, and tunnels. You can get more information about it from this blog entry by Jeremy Bales, a photographer based in NYC.
There's an interesting site that catalogs this type of situation. It's name is "War on Photography".
As for photographing the fronts of homes, Irfox found out the nuance, "property lines." As long as you are on the other side of the property line, you can take as many pictures as you want. If you are on the property of a person or business, their rules are what governs you.
Since I'm on the Historical Commission in my town, I will make the effort to ask permission to photograph a private residence. I've found, generally, it helps to build a good relationship with the owner. My approach is usually to identify what the elements are of the structure that I want to photograph and offer to provide them with a copy of those photos they like. A few times I've been rebuffed, but for the most part that brief interaction is enough to make a friend.
Have I ever been stopped? Yup, several times. Usually a brief discussion about where I am in relation to the property line or a request for the rules that govern that location are sufficient to allow me to take the shots I want.
In a nutshell, I feel differently than you. I really don't see how it can hurt to politely ask permission even if you really don't need to. You can avoid unnecessary trouble that way. Don't kill yourself to go out of your way, but if there's an opportunity, what's the problem?
I think we're more in agreement than you think. When I said I'd never ask for permission, I meant knocking on the person's door or otherwise finding the owner and asking for permission. Obviously if somebody's out in the front yard, I'm not going to stand there and photograph them. I would most likely ask in that situation if it was going to be obvious that I was taking pictures. Same thing with photographing people. If I wanted a nice portrait of a person on the street, I would ask them first rather than just shoving a camera in their face. These are common courtesies, BTW, and have nothing to do with legal aspects of taking pictures which I believe is more of what this thread is about.
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