North Shore Connector: Positives (Pittsburgh, Penn: how much, hotel, live)

[osirus226]

I can't wait until this is in operation!
Driving back and forth from South park to the North side every day in rush hour traffic is getting really old, really quick.
I saw the new track and the stations a few days ago and its looking really nice!

[pman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

They've always talked about people taking the T to games, including parking elsewhere along the T first. So at a guess, they included that factor already in coming up with their estimates of how many garage slots they would need in the long run to make up for the lost surface spots.

that would assume they've looked at various service levels, etc, which, in my experience, is too much to assume. it's possible, but I wouldn't assume it. in addition to the T (probably the most efficient if far too limited) you coudl run articulated buses as well. there's both a capital subsidy and operating subsidy associated with the garages.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

They've always talked about people taking the T to games, including parking elsewhere along the T first. So at a guess, they included that factor already in coming up with their estimates of how many garage slots they would need in the long run to make up for the lost surface spots.

They need to keep that surface lot between Heinz Field and the Fort Duquesne Bridge so people can tailgate.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pman

that would assume they've looked at various service levels, etc, which, in my experience, is too much to assume. it's possible, but I wouldn't assume it.

I'd call it a guess rather than an assumption, but it is an informed guess. These are sophisticated players and they worked out a comprehensive deal with full knowledge of the plans for the T.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

They need to keep that surface lot between Heinz Field and the Fort Duquesne Bridge so people can tailgate.

They did reserve the lots on the other side of General Robinson (Gold 1, I believe) when making the development plans.

Personally, I think people should start getting used to the idea of tailgaiting in T park-and-ride lots.

[pman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I'd call it a guess rather than an assumption, but it is an informed guess. These are sophisticated players and they worked out a comprehensive deal with full knowledge of the plans for the T.

that kind of skirts the issue. the assumptions beind the "plans for the T" are what I'm getting at. until I see them, I would say they likely included the current operating schedule.

what are the changes in bus/LRT service PAT has laid out for post- NSC launch?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pman

until I see them, I would say they likely included the current operating schedule.

I actually don't know what you mean. The current operating schedule includes nothing for the NSC, because it doesn't exist yet.

what are the changes in bus/LRT service PAT has laid out for post- NSC launch?

I don't know if there is a public service plan available (there may well be).

But if you poke around PAT's NSC pages, you can find stuff like this:

Port Authority of Allegheny County > News > Capital Projects > North Shore Connector > FAQs

Ridership associated with Steelers' and Pirates' games is expected to account for about 12% of the 4.2 million annual riders projected to use the North Shore Connector.

Somewhere there is a ridership study which supports that claim, and again my informed guess is that the Steelers, Pirates, SEA, and so on had access to that sort of thing when formulating their development agreement.

By the way, that is about 500,000 annual game riders. I don't know how they are dividing that up between football and baseball games, but it looks like they are expecting significant numbers per game.

[SammyKhalifa]

I guess I don't see the real advantage to taking the T to a Pirates game over just walking over the bridge. I suppose South Hills People could just take the T all the way up, but the people that are going to do that are probably taking it already.

I suppose it could be a different story in bad weather: but then again, if the weather is too bad there isn't going to be baseball anyhow.

[pman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I actually don't know what you mean. The current operating schedule includes nothing for the NSC, because it doesn't exist yet.

it doesn't need to exist to draw up an operating plan. how will service change when the nsc is implemented or will T trains simply be extended and that's that? most likely they plan on specials but what about feeder buses or express buses?

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Somewhere there is a ridership study which supports that claim, and again my informed guess is that the Steelers, Pirates, SEA, and so on had access to that sort of thing when formulating their development agreement. By the way, that is about 500,000 annual game riders. I don't know how they are dividing that up between football and baseball games, but it looks like they are expecting significant numbers per game.

you have to be careful with team claims I'd imagine. who benefits from the development?
so they expect half a million given current plans. what I'm saying is, compare the capital and operating subsidy for a new garage to what might be require to move the needle on increasing the number of transit (not just T, buses if need be) users. more transit users equals fewer spaces needed. something the stadium owners might be reluctant to admit is that fewer spots=higher price per spot=more transit riders and more money for the taaxpayers who funded the stadiums.

Sammy is right, PNC Park isn't that inconvenient as it is. Of course, I dount the Pirates need more space than is available (even assuming sellouts) since the stadium capacity is much lower than the steelers. it's likely A) the steelers or B) concern over the days when the two coincide. those are both bad reasons not to develop land though, since those days are very few and lack of development impacts most of the year, every year.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

They did reserve the lots on the other side of General Robinson (Gold 1, I believe) when making the development plans.

Personally, I think people should start getting used to the idea of tailgaiting in T park-and-ride lots.

Part of the atmosphere of tailgating is being in the shadow of the stadium.