Drink Tax debate up again (Pittsburgh: real estate, how much, neighborhood)

[raubre]

Drink tax cut on table - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

[gg]

From 7 to 6% oh joy. The tax was supposed to fund the totally messed up PAT Transit that loses an amazing amount of money every year. You know how much goes to PAT? I have read about 30%. It should be illegal to tax one business like they do. Seems many agree since Onorato didn't even win Allegheny County.

[BrianTH]

The County gives money to PAT. The drink tax goes to the County. There is no real way to track the money specifically to PAT.

Incidentally, PAT is a public service. It "loses money" in the same sense a fire department does.

[gg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

The County gives money to PAT. The drink tax goes to the County. There is no real way to track the money specifically to PAT.

Incidentally, PAT is a public service. It "loses money" in the same sense a fire department does.

PAT charges fees to ride the bus. They pay their drivers an amazing amount of money and will lose tons of money overpaying drivers that they could actually hire for 1/2 of what they pay. Fireman is a different service. They risk their lives. If a service like buses, trains and subways doesn't take in enough money, raise the fees and put a pay freeze in place. Of course that will cause a strike. Maybe it is time to break it up and hire an outside company to start a new service in Pittsburgh?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

PAT charges fees to ride the bus.

Maybe they shouldn't. Most roads aren't tolled, and no one is insisting that all roads turn a profit. In that sense, it may be confusing some people that public transit authorities typically cover a portion of their expenses with rider fees, and conversely it might clarify things if their services were free.

If a service like buses, trains and subways doesn't take in enough money, raise the fees and put a pay freeze in place.

And I assume you also support tolling all roads, such that you won't be able to leave your driveway without making sure your local road company is turning a profit?

Of course the truth is that riders are only one of the beneficiaries of public transit. Employers also benefit, as do local merchants, land developers, and so on. For that matter, car travellers benefit from reduced congestion.

The fact that not all the benefits of transportation systems go to the direct users is also why it doesn't actually make sense to toll every road. As people have understood since ancient times, publicly-funded transportation is vital to economic development. There used to be a bipartisan consensus to that effect in the United States as well. But the recent culture wars, specifically the anti-urban component, has led some people to reject that truth as applied to buses, trains, and subways (again, no seems to be insisting that all public roads pay for themselves).

[gg]

Brain last I looked I pay TONS of taxes already for roads, bridges and more. I think you forgot people pay taxes when the buy things, make money, own real estate, put gas in a car... oh goodness, I can't list all the new taxes. Need I forget the NEW drink tax from the idiot. When I am paying more and more taxes and bus drivers are making over 80K a year due to overtime, not to mention teachers in my neighborhood can make over 100K!!!!! Oh by the way, they only work 1/2 a year if you consider all the holidays and summer vacation.

Seems you forgot how much many of us are taxed to death already.

[BrianTH]

Right, taxes are a necessary cost of living in a decent society with a decent economy. And some of those taxes should pay for transportation, including public transit.

Don't get me wrong--it is fine to want your taxes to be well spent. PAT has made important progress in becoming more efficient in recent years, including with respect to labor costs, and it is a good idea to acknowledge that progress if you want to see more progress in the future. But they can and should do more to become even more efficient.

That is different, however, from insisting that PAT's only funding be user fees. That isn't going to make PAT more efficient, it would be bad for the local economy, and it is inconsistent with how we fund transportation in general.

[Tirade]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

not to mention teachers in my neighborhood can make over 100K!!!!! Oh by the way, they only work 1/2 a year if you consider all the holidays and summer vacation.

Oh I'm just tired of the "teachers get paid too much" argument. The only ones making over $100K are the veterans who have been at the job for decades, and even getting that much money isn't common at all. The science and math teachers getting $100K are probably getting less money than they would if they had spent the last 20+ years working for private employers or universities.

The teachers with less experience receive salaries that are far less than what they could from a private job with equivalent degree and skill requirements. That's really quite sad considering the important service they perform for the community. If you pay the teachers even less than what they receive now, the only ones who are going to stick around are the ones who aren't competent or driven enough to look for a better job elsewhere. Think about that. Would you really want those types educating your children?

And the "teachers only work for half a year" comment shows how blatantly ignorant you are. Most states require teachers to continue their education through classes and seminars related to teaching, class management, and whatever subject they teach. Teachers who only have a BA are required to get a MA within a certain amount of time in order to keep their license. When do you think they take these classes? Do you really think they offer the teacher-specific classes during the normal school days?

I also had a teacher in high school who worked a part-time retail job in the summer because her school salary alone wasn't enough to support her family (believe me, she wasn't getting paid anywhere close to $80-100K!).

Sorry for the tangent, but people who hate on teachers **** me off. If you want to eliminate waste in the school system, start cutting the salaries of the school board members, superintendent, and the administrators who get paid far more than teachers for doing much less work.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

not to mention teachers in my neighborhood can make over 100K!!!!! Oh by the way, they only work 1/2 a year if you consider all the holidays and summer vacation.

This kind of thinking is what is becoming the death of America. People who openly turn against the people that educate future generations of Americans while they are silent when corporate greed is shaping our way of life for the worse.

I know that people are upset that their taxes aren't being spent correctly (and rightfully so), but fighting education of all things is the wrong battle.

[grimacista]

Onorato knows that the drink tax is the only reason he didn't win Allegheny County, so now he wants to seem like some hero for maybe reducing it more. Let's face it, no matter what some politician says taxes and fees are 'meant for' like 'property tax reduction' or 'saving PAT', it just goes into one big pot where 30% of it is wasted off the top.