If you are enjoying the damp, dank start to spring then get ready (Pittsburgh: insurance, home)

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

No, it isn't the first time, because we already went through this. So as not to just repeat myself in every detail, here is what I said before:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/19105817-post92.html

To sum up, I don't want to live in a desert, the mix of weather in Pittsburgh is within the broad range which I prefer, and I don't really care exactly where in that range Pittsburgh ends up.

And you can try to argue with me about it all you like, but you will never get me to care about the fact that some other nearby cities (in some of which I have actually lived) have slightly higher percent possible sunlight percentages. Because it is a subjective matter, and I know myself, and I really, truly don't care.

On the other hand, maybe you do care. And I would consider it silly to argue with you about how you feel, because that is subjective.

So end of debate, right?

Probably not.

I wasn't even referring to you. You take a different approach via subjectivity and objectivity while others just flat twist around stats and pretend we aren't as cloudy as we are while pretending that it's ok since other cities might have similar weather at times. We're all entitled to our own opinions (myself included), but to pretend that we don't have more clouds/rain/snow/whatever than other places while denying facts is horse shit.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by SammyKhalifa

But let's be totally honest about our feelings towards February, here. I'm sure that's where we lose those 3% of days or whatever it is that makes us more "cloudy" than a handful of other cities. I'm sure it's no coincidence that it's also about that time that I start to harbor some seriously ill will towards a lot of things. I'm guessing people who defend that weather would defend just about anything.

Seriously, my biggest complaint with the winters here is that often the snow doesn't stick around enough (I grew up in Michigan, which likely explains much of my preferences for winters).

I've also acknowledged before that the average amount of sun in winter is probably outside my ideal range, but I am not being dishonest when I note that the amount of sun really isn't my chief concern--the snow is.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

I wasn't even referring to you. You take a different approach via subjectivity and objectivity while others just flat twist around stats and pretend we aren't as cloudy as we are while pretending that it's ok since other cities might have similar weather at times. We're all entitled to our own opinions (myself included), but to pretend that we don't have more clouds/rain/snow/whatever than other places while backing it up with facts is horse shit.

I'll agree there are some people on all sides who don't keep the subjective and objective distinction firmly in mind. On the other hand, I don't think it is inherently wrong to want to discuss what the stats actually imply.

In any event, I think if no one was confusing the subjective and the objective, the remaining stats discussions would be brief and perhaps even informative. But I have no doubt that won't happen, because there will always be people willing to claim the stats show that their inherently subjective claims are right, which will inevitably cause these discussions to cycle through the exact same steps over and over.

[SammyKhalifa]

Haha, I kinda hate the snow too. I hate that the city doesn't seem to be able to plow my street despite taking like 3 times the taxes from me compared to people outside the limits. I hate that it seems there is like one annoying inch on my car every single morning. Come to think about it I guess, I dislike driving in the snow more than the snow itself.

[ditchdigger]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

(Tapping feet). STILL waiting for this nice weather I was promised after living here nearly six months! The extended forecast shows rain everyday from today through at least next Tuesday.

Hmmmm... What's different about here than it was last spring?

AHA! This weather is YOUR fault!

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

I wasn't even referring to you. You take a different approach via subjectivity and objectivity while others just flat twist around stats and pretend we aren't as cloudy as we are while pretending that it's ok since other cities might have similar weather at times. We're all entitled to our own opinions (myself included), but to pretend that we don't have more clouds/rain/snow/whatever than other places while denying facts is horse shit.

50% - May

FACT: On average, it is equally likely to be sunny in Pittsburgh in May as it is to be cloudy.

55% - June

FACT: On average, it is more likely to be sunny in Pittsburgh in June than it is to be cloudy.

57% - July

FACT: On average, it is more likely to be sunny in Pittsburgh in July than it is to be cloudy.

56% - August

FACT: On average, it is more likely to be sunny in Pittsburgh in August than it is to be cloudy.

55% - September

FACT: On average, it is more likely to be sunny in Pittsburgh in September than it is to be cloudy.

51% - October

FACT: On average, it is more likely to be sunny in Pittsburgh in October than it is to be cloudy.

Those are the facts, yet we still have ****ing morons who insist that it's only sunny 50 days per year in Pittsburgh. The months of May, June, July, August, September and October have 184 days combined, so even if those six months averaged no more than 50% potential sunshine, that still makes for 92 days of it, which is far more than 50 days even if the sun never shines at all from November 1 through April 30. If anything, people pretend that Pittsburgh is cloudier than it is, and they're the ones twisting the facts. Yeah, it's really cloudy in Pittsburgh from November through February, but those are only four months, and it's time for people to stop pretending that it's as cloudy in Pittsburgh in July as it is in January.

And spare me the "Nearby City X gets 60% sunshine potential in July while Pittsburgh only gets 57%" horse****, because you sound just like the clowns on the City vs. City forum who claim that City A is "far wealthier" than City B because City A's per capita income is $987 higher than City B's, or that City A is "far more cosmopolitan" than City B because City A has a 2.6% larger proportion of Hispanics than City B. At some point the difference becomes small enough that normal people won't even notice it. People who move to Pittsburgh from Dallas will notice the reduced sunshine, but people who move to Pittsburgh from Detroit won't.

Now go ahead and whip out your Oprah Whinfrey GIF. That'll show me!

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

And spare me the "Nearby City X gets 60% sunshine potential in July while Pittsburgh only gets 57%" horse****, because you sound just like the clowns on the City vs. City forum who claim that City A is "far wealthier" than City B because City A's per capita income is $987 higher than City B's, or that City A is "far more cosmopolitan" than City B because City A has a 2.6% larger proportion of Hispanics than City B. At some point the difference becomes small enough that normal people won't even notice it. People who move to Pittsburgh from Dallas will notice the reduced sunshine, but people who move to Pittsburgh from Detroit won't.

This is exactly what I was talking about. Thanks for proving my point!

[mike02]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

50% - May

FACT: On average, it is equally likely to be sunny in Pittsburgh in May as it is to be cloudy.

55% - June

FACT: On average, it is more likely to be sunny in Pittsburgh in June than it is to be cloudy.

57% - July

FACT: On average, it is more likely to be sunny in Pittsburgh in July than it is to be cloudy.

56% - August

FACT: On average, it is more likely to be sunny in Pittsburgh in August than it is to be cloudy.

55% - September

FACT: On average, it is more likely to be sunny in Pittsburgh in September than it is to be cloudy.

51% - October

FACT: On average, it is more likely to be sunny in Pittsburgh in October than it is to be cloudy.

Those are the facts, yet we still have ****ing morons who insist that it's only sunny 50 days per year in Pittsburgh. The months of May, June, July, August, September and October have 184 days combined, so even if those six months averaged no more than 50% potential sunshine, that still makes for 92 days of it, which is far more than 50 days even if the sun never shines at all from November 1 through April 30. If anything, people pretend that Pittsburgh is cloudier than it is, and they're the ones twisting the facts. Yeah, it's really cloudy in Pittsburgh from November through February, but those are only four months, and it's time for people to stop pretending that it's as cloudy in Pittsburgh in July as it is in January.

And spare me the "Nearby City X gets 60% sunshine potential in July while Pittsburgh only gets 57%" horse****, because you sound just like the clowns on the City vs. City forum who claim that City A is "far wealthier" than City B because City A's per capita income is $987 higher than City B's, or that City A is "far more cosmopolitan" than City B because City A has a 2.6% larger proportion of Hispanics than City B. At some point the difference becomes small enough that normal people won't even notice it. People who move to Pittsburgh from Dallas will notice the reduced sunshine, but people who move to Pittsburgh from Detroit won't.

Now go ahead and whip out your Oprah Whinfrey GIF. That'll show me!

BRAVO! I hate when people nit-pick over these damn stats. Someone from Philly won't notice the 57% sunshine in July in Pgh compared to their 61%. Also, Allentown, PA, exactly 45 minutes north of Philly receives 57% sunshine in July, exactly the same as ours! And 46% in April, exactly the same as ours! What I can conclude from this is that the numbers fluctuate depending on how many years the data was collected, the methodology, and other variables that may affect it (e.g. skies covered in smoke during the steel mill era?). Without getting into stupid arguments like Philly has more sun in the summer (which it may or may not), we can safely conclude that even if a difference does truly exist, YOU WON'T NOTICE IT! The winters, on the other hand, there is no denying the difference. There is more of a gap. Yet, we are not alone for cloudy winter weather. Plenty of Northeastern/Midwestern cities experience it.

If some people can get this out of their thick skulls that we're not in some isolated weather bubble that makes our weather somehow cloudier annually than cities like Syracuse and Cleveland and seasonally like Philly and NYC, the better off we would be.

SCENARIO: If someone from Philly were to move here and was concerned about the cloudiness (assuming they looked at the stats), what would you tell them?

MY RESPONSE: I lived in Philly! You won't notice much between April and October as compared to Philly. Once you start diving into Nov, particularly around Thanksgiving, the days become noticeably cloudier. This pattern lasts into March, where we begin a subtle increase in sunshine.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by mike02

If some people can get this out of their thick skulls that we're not in some isolated weather bubble that makes our weather somehow cloudier annually than cities like Syracuse and Cleveland and seasonally like Philly and NYC, the better off we would be.

Um.....

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/...pctposrank.txt

[SammyKhalifa]

That just reinforces my belief that people are blowing this "cloudiest city" issue waaaaay out of proportion. I'm sure some people would notice the 2-5% difference between that and other cities in the region, but I won't. That's well within the margin of error for most presidential polls, and actually makes me wonder if we're just dealing with a sample size issue there. (On second thought, maybe I should book an early vacation to the tropical paradise of Rochester, NY.)

Question about the stats--does "cloudy" mean no sun all day long, or does one cloud make it a "cloudy" day? Just became curious after this discussion.