The 'burg has been jumping lately. (Pittsburgh, Penn: fit in, employment, neighborhood)
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Downtown is a work in progress, its not going to become Manhattan or Center City Philly over night....It's much better than what it was 5-6 years ago I will say that, but it still a work in progress.
The Challenges Downtown faces:
A - Chicken or Egg situation (what comes first) - People need to come downtown not just live there for businesses to see it worth while to be open on weekends, but people dont want to come if businesses are not open. To remedy this I think you start by having businesses Open on special events weekend, there are enough events throughout the calendar year for it to become fairly routine..
B - Neighborhoods. Unlike many other cities where the pulse of the city is centered on its Downtown, Pittsburgh does not therefore Downtown is competing with some very active and vibrant neighborhoods to attract people to come downtown. Why go downtown when everything I need on weekend is in my 'hood.
C - PAT. With Parking Rates going up, cost of gas is high, and Public Transit in shambles...People just don't want to put up with or can't get there. We need to fix PAT, PERIOD! If PAT needs to cut again the next thing to go is Weekend Service, and you can forget any type of pulse or life Downtown on the weekends. Hopefully the political leaders are not that Dumb and the population is not dumb enough to let them get away with it. I hope Onorato, Corbett, Ravenstahl, and PAT unions are working as we speak to correct this, Pittsburgh cannot stand anymore cuts to public transit without it starting to work against what the city and region are trying to accomplish.
D - Downtown Residence. Yes you need people living downtown, but the market cannot only cater to the Rich, and High Income Earners who may only use Downtown as their M-F address. There needs to be a Middle Market of Apartments available as well who will live there 7 days a week mostly.
E - Downtown also needs to be a destination to give people a reason for coming downtown on the weekends. It has to be something that forces you downtown because it can't be found anywhere else in the region.
Very well put. I'm glad BrianTH keeps us informed of ongoing (re)development projects occurring in/around the city, especially Downtown, because we would like to live Downtown someday. Finding a mid-range rental unit that accepts pets Downtown right now just isn't exactly very easy. I'm glad I live in Polish Hill, which is an easy walk to Downtown (and a fraction of the price due), but the better half lives in Shadyside.
I agree with your "B" point. We spend much more time patronizing businesses in East Liberty and in/around the Highland Avenue and Ellsworth Avenue retail corridors near his Shadyside home than we do Downtown. I walk Downtown roughly once per week so we can do lunch together while he's on his lunch break, but even then that's not enough for me to get my Downtown "thirst" quenched.
It would have been fantastic if they could have put Hard Rock, Dave & Buster's, and IKEA Downtown to serve as "destinations" but I suppose hindsight is 20/20.
As far as the other discussion regarding the staff of Winghart's, NOLA, etc. needing days off every week all I can say is:
1.) Expand your staff so you can rotate them effectively on shifts instead of overburdening them. Most waitstaff earns $2.83/hr. + their own generated tips. That's not exactly a huge investment to make to "capture" a lot of people who normally aren't Downtown on a big day like last Sunday.
2.) Suck it up. I worked over 80 hours the week of Valentine's Day because it was such a hectic time for our business, which is similarly staffed to NOLA and Winghart's. We needed to "capture" that insane holiday traffic to help reinforce our profit margins during the typically leaner Summer months. Winghart's and NOLA both could have been opened on that Sunday I was referencing and made a KILLING. There was the Pirates/Phillies game, the jazz festival, the arts festival, and other events drawnig many tens of thousands of people Downtown. Market Square was packed, but everyone was eating Subway, Moe's, Primanti's, etc. instead of enjoying a nice meal at a place like Winghart's or NOLA. If you want to work in the service industry while simultaneously expecting/demanding weekends off, then good luck with that.
Cranberry is only 15 miles from downtown Pittsburgh, so if that's the farthest out the Pittsburgh area sprawls, then that's better than most cities. Hell, 15 miles north of downtown Atlanta on either I-75 or I-85 would put you less than five miles beyond I-285 -- and there's another 10 miles of developed suburbia up I-75 (Acworth), and another 20 miles of developed suburbia up I-85 (Buford).
Speaking of elitist, show me one upper middle class WASP family from the suburbs who doesn't think that the city is some dangerous scary crumbling ghetto, and I'll show you a cheap plot of land on Manhattan.
Hi. I'm one of those people. My husband and I are WASP/Catholics (sorry, this is Pittsburgh after all- more Catholics than Protestants) both born and raised in the suburbs. Neither of us think that the city is "some dangerous scary crumbling ghetto." I even lived in the city for about 7 years.
Why does everything on to this board always have to come down to trashing the suburbs? Many people do not enjoy city living. I love the city, I love a lot of aspects of city living, but raising a family in the city is not for me. But I don't trash people who chose to live in the city.
Not everyone can or wants to live in the city. Not everyone can or wants to live in the suburbs. There's nothing that's going to change that. There's no reason to have such a big chip on your shoulder about people who live in the suburbs. Get over it.
Pittsburgh Pride is now officially HUGE. We went down early at 9 to help set up our church's booth and stayed through the parade and festival afterwards. Thousands and thousands of people lined Fifth Avenue for the parade, which went down to the Fairmont Hotel and turned right onto Liberty at the reviewing stands. Lots of people from all over, lots of families with kids, and the whole thing was great. The festival after the parade closed Liberty from 6th all the way up to the Westin Hotel and it was packed with people all day. Most downtown hotels were sold out because the Delta Foundation marketed the weekend with hotel packages to other northeastern and midwestern cities.
very typical of downtown, and something I will never really understand.
I lived a neighborhood away from both downtown Seattle and Portland during the early '80s, and there was always something going on downtown, especially in Portland. Moving here in '99 was something of a culture shock.
As a person who's looking out of the window of a sky scraper downtown as I'm typing this, I can confidently say that this area of town has 2 purposes outside of office work:
1. Being open during work hours so that yuppies can feed themselves
2. Looking nice so that we can call ourselves a real city
Seriously, no one wants to be downtown outside of work hours. There's nothing open except theater venues and you can't catch a cab anywhere. Even if downtown suddenly did a 180 and was a "destination", Pittsburghers still wouldn't be down here since it's so ingrained in their mindset that downtown is dead after 5 PM. Because it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella
Cranberry is only 15 miles from downtown Pittsburgh, so if that's the farthest out the Pittsburgh area sprawls, then that's better than most cities. Hell, 15 miles north of downtown Atlanta on either I-75 or I-85 would put you less than five miles beyond I-285 -- and there's another 10 miles of developed suburbia up I-75 (Acworth), and another 20 miles of developed suburbia up I-85 (Buford).
The only purpose that Cranberry Township serves is to siphon potential economic success AWAY from the core of the metro area with its promises of ample free parking, lower property taxes, lower overhead costs for doing business, etc. People like to brag about Cranberry because it is home to Westinghouse, Rue21, and many other companies; however, if Cranberry was still the rural paradise that native Tallysmom remembers it was back in her day, then those companies would have established themselves in or near to the city proper.
What happens if I get a job in Cranberry? The only way there from Polish Hill is to hop in my car and drive there. How does that help our region's air quality? How does that help our area to curtail traffic congestion? I intentionally moved within walking distance of Downtown so I could WALK to work and reduce my carbon footprint. The fact that more and more opportunities I'm seeing ARE in Cranberry (or Robinson or Moon to be fair) irks me because corporations are punishing those of us who want to live sustainably by moving to ecologically-irresponsible exurban locales to be nearer to the portion of their workforce with children who didn't want to send their children to school with the poor blacks back in the city. Then those of us who are younger and want to be "green" are STILL forced to drive out to Robinson, Moon, and, yes, Cranberry where the office parks don't have sidewalks, where we can't walk to anywhere interesting on our lunch breaks, where we have to add to traffic congestion and air pollution to get there, etc.
I don't want any of you pro-Cranberry people complaining if and when your township's unchecked growth propels you into having the same problems that Tysons Corner, Virginia has with congestion and sterility. Cranberry, being 15-20 miles north of the city, is poised to become an "edge city". What I don't like about that, though, is that while most edge cities are effectively connected to their host cities Cranberry really isn't, so it just serves as a parasite feasting upon the carcass that is Pittsburgh.
How does decentralizing Pittsburgh's economic base benefit the metro area other than catering to people with children who think they are too good for the city? I can be reinforced by numerous young professional peers who have likewise passed over jobs in the exurbs for similar reasons.
What happens to Cranberry when gas prices hit $6/gallon? Just curious.
Hi. I'm one of those people. My husband and I are WASP/Catholics (sorry, this is Pittsburgh after all- more Catholics than Protestants) both born and raised in the suburbs. Neither of us think that the city is "some dangerous scary crumbling ghetto." I even lived in the city for about 7 years.
Why does everything on to this board always have to come down to trashing the suburbs? Many people do not enjoy city living. I love the city, I love a lot of aspects of city living, but raising a family in the city is not for me. But I don't trash people who chose to live in the city.
Not everyone can or wants to live in the city. Not everyone can or wants to live in the suburbs. There's nothing that's going to change that. There's no reason to have such a big chip on your shoulder about people who live in the suburbs. Get over it.
The name of the board is "City Data" and not "Suburban Data" or "Rural Data" so there might be some bias. Plus you have to remember that somewhere along the way it became hip to move back into cities and get out of the suburbs. I agree with you though, it's different strokes for different folks.
I've lived in inner city all of my life and honestly at age 26 I would not mind packing up and moving to a simple life in a small town. Everyone is different.
Hi. I'm one of those people. My husband and I are WASP/Catholics (sorry, this is Pittsburgh after all- more Catholics than Protestants) both born and raised in the suburbs. Neither of us think that the city is "some dangerous scary crumbling ghetto." I even lived in the city for about 7 years.
Why does everything on to this board always have to come down to trashing the suburbs? Many people do not enjoy city living. I love the city, I love a lot of aspects of city living, but raising a family in the city is not for me. But I don't trash people who chose to live in the city.
Not everyone can or wants to live in the city. Not everyone can or wants to live in the suburbs. There's nothing that's going to change that. There's no reason to have such a big chip on your shoulder about people who live in the suburbs. Get over it.
As long as Pittsburgh is COMPETING with its suburbs/exurbs for what little population growth and incoming job opportunities we're experiencing, then continue to expect this hostile relationship between those of us who dwell within the city and want to shield her from further decline and those in the suburbs/exurbs who couldn't care less about the city's future as long as life continues to be "milk and honey" in the 'burbs.
This isn't Atlanta, for example, where the entire metro area is burgeoning so much that you can simultaneously have epic success economically in both the city's core AND the exurbs/suburbs. Every time a new corporation moves to Cranberry Township or Robinson Township, then a significant portion of its Pittsburgh-inhabiting workforce will consider relocating to those townships or surrounding areas to be closer to work. The decentralization of employment concerns in our metro area has a MUCH more profound impact upon the city proper than what the pro-Cranberry types will give it credit for. Taking myself as a prime example I'm still underemployed (by choice) six months after moving here because the offers I've had that pay more are all in the exurbs/suburbs. This means that I have less discretionary income to spend on helping to shore up other businesses that are attempting to create jobs. I'm willingly suffering trying to protect the city's best long-term interests.
Prove to me, Burghgirl17, Love2Golf09, and other pro-suburb types, that the growth places like Robinson or Cranberry are experiencing do not hurt Pittsburgh city proper. Prove it.
Prove to me, Burghgirl17, Love2Golf09, and other pro-suburb types, that the growth places like Robinson or Cranberry are experiencing do not hurt Pittsburgh city proper. Prove it.
Last I checked we live in a free country, well sort of and if a company feels it is better to locate in a less expensive area like Cranberry and build another plastic building, they can do so. Some smaller places cannot afford Pittsburgh's downtown, so they have a place to go and employ people. You ultra pro-city approach isn't looking at things from all sides. Pittsburgh is doing just fine and anyone that knows anything about real estate in this area, things take a very long time to progress. Seems Pittsburgh is doing quite well considering that the economy is still recovering from the bush years of mass spending on things that did nothing to help the US be more competitive in a global economy. We have to live with that.
On top of all this, for a start up company it is needed for people to have places around Pittsburgh to go. Just think of the parking situations for employees and the huge taxes and costs of operating out of the city proper. Bottom line is, Pittsburgh needs areas outside of the city proper to get growth going. The more people employed the better. Try starting a company downtown and compare costs to Cranberry. Good luck if you don't have tons of money as a start up.
Prove to me, Burghgirl17, Love2Golf09, and other pro-suburb types, that the growth places like Robinson or Cranberry are experiencing do not hurt Pittsburgh city proper. Prove it.
PROVE that it does hurt it. This kind of adversarial crap doesn't achieve anything.
You know what will happen to Cranberry when gas hits $6/gallon? Quite possibly nothing. The population will shift some perhaps, but it won't necessarily fall. People who are commuting TO Cranberry now may instead move there to be closer to their job, while people who are commuting from Cranberry to other areas including the city may move closer to work. Net change? Not much. Because Cranberry has its own significant employer base it won't likely turn into some ghost town like a true bedroom-only area.
It's important to think regionally. Not everyone is going to live in the city, so get over that.
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