The Official Cranberry Township Thread (living, dangerous, internship)

[Burghgirl17]

Originally Posted by Katiana

There is no need to be contemptuous and sarcastic about other people's housing choices. My house doesn't have all those features, but it has some, and I'm quite happy with it.

Amen. Not everyone wants to live in a 1 bedroom hovel with no hot water.

And to echo, priorities and needs changes once you have human beings who depend on you. When you're young and single, yes, but once you have kids a lot of things change. You can't be selfish when you have other lives that depend on you for their care and well being.

[SammyKhalifa]

Originally Posted by Burghgirl17

Amen. Not everyone wants to live in a 1 bedroom hovel with no hot water.

And to echo, priorities and needs changes once you have human beings who depend on you. When you're young and single, yes, but once you have kids a lot of things change. You can't be selfish when you have other lives that depend on you for their care and well being.

I would have been thinking more about the two people who live by themselves and "need" 4 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms. If the entire nation lived like that we'd be in trouble. THAT's selfish.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by Burghgirl17

Amen. Not everyone wants to live in a 1 bedroom hovel with no hot water.

And to echo, priorities and needs changes once you have human beings who depend on you. When you're young and single, yes, but once you have kids a lot of things change. You can't be selfish when you have other lives that depend on you for their care and well being.

How is it being selfish to live in a modest house in or near the city with children? Brian is always pointing out the statistic about automobile accidents being the leading cause of death for children. You could just as easily say that it's selfish and dangerous to live in the suburbs and exurbs with kids.

[BrianTH]

Parents typically face a lot of tradeoffs when trying to decide what would be best for their children, and I personally think people should be careful about making assumptions or assertions about what ultimate decision would be best for any given family (or every family).

I also don't think there is a hard line between things that are good for the parents and things that are good for their children. For example, short commutes could be nice for parent, and also provide for more quality time with their children (note this example isn't inherently pro-city or pro-suburb--it all depends on where you work). I also think it is important for parents to share at least some of their favorite activities with their children, and so on.

[Burghgirl17]

Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday

How is it being selfish to live in a modest house in or near the city with children? Brian is always pointing out the statistic about automobile accidents being the leading cause of death for children. You could just as easily say that it's selfish and dangerous to live in the suburbs and exurbs with kids.

I didn't say that it was selfish. But that you have different considerations. And every family's considerations are also different.

[Caladium]

A house is a long term investment. Many people buy a house with more bedrooms than they presently need because they plan to eventually have children or have an elderly relative move in. Perhaps you have a large family and realize you'll need room for lots of visitors and even long term guests. Down here it's not uncommon to have situations like a nephew who can't pay for an apartment but needs a place to stay while he's completing an internship--I would imagine similar situations happen up there, too. And, as pointed out, things like hobbies and pets get bigger over time, and need more space as time passes.

A single person who buys a 600 sf one bedroom condo may soon regret having bought something too small a year or two later when he wants to marry. And don't forget that many people need extra bedrooms as an office, especially if you plan on eventually opening a business or telecommuting. In some situations couples need two offices.

It's a smart move to buy a house you can grow into.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday

How is it being selfish to live in a modest house in or near the city with children? Brian is always pointing out the statistic about automobile accidents being the leading cause of death for children. You could just as easily say that it's selfish and dangerous to live in the suburbs and exurbs with kids.

Accidents are the leading cause of death in kids over a year of age, and auto accidents are the leading cause of accidental death. Auto accidents include pedestrian/auto accidents, which are higher in the city.

Death among children and adolescents: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

Pedestrian Accident Statistics « LAW INFORMATION
Generally, pedestrian deaths rates are higher in urban areas. The National Safety Council estimates that 85.7 percent of all non-fatal pedestrian accidents in the United States occur in urban areas and 14.3 percent occur in rural areas.

- Almost two-thirds of all pedestrian fatalities occur on urban roads.
- In 2005, 72 percent of pedestrian deaths occurred in urban settings.

[BrianTH]

Keep in mind that pedestrian deaths are only the second-highest category of car accident deaths, after occupant deaths.

Second, that definition of "urban" includes most suburbs (it includes everything not defined as "rural"). And the only reason the rate is higher in "urban" areas is that the volumes of car traffic and pedestrians are so much higher--in fact when accidents do occur in rural areas, they are more likely to be fatal due to the higher speeds involved.

In fact with both pedestrian deaths and occupant deaths, there is a large correlation with the speed of the roadway in question. For example, per that link: "In 2005, 71 percent of pedestrian deaths occurred on major roads, including interstates and freeways." Also: "A pedestrian has an 85 percent chance of death when involved in a motor/vehicle collision at 40 mph, a 45 percent chance of death at 30 mph, and a 5 percent chance of death at 20 mph." There are also other studies which suggest that pre-teen children have a lot of trouble assessing the approach time of vehicles when they are traveling over 20 mph, so that 20 mph threshold is important for multiple reasons when it comes to children and pedestrian deaths.

Finally, as also mentioned at that link, things like well-marked intersections, sidewalks, traffic calming measures, four-way stops, well-lit roads, and so on help prevent pedestrian deaths.

To sum up:

(1) Occupant deaths are a greater risk than pedestrian deaths, but both are substantial;

(2) To reduce the risk of either, it is helps to minimize exposure to higher-speed roads;

(3) To further reduce the risk of pedestrian death, it helps to minimize exposure to roads without the sorts of measures listed above.

Again, none of this is inherently pro-city or pro-suburb. But it does suggest parents should try to minimize, to the extent practical, how much time their children will spend as occupants, pedestrians, and eventually drivers on higher-speed roads and/or roads without the listed measures.

[Denton56]

Originally Posted by Burghgirl17

Amen. Not everyone wants to live in a 1 bedroom hovel with no hot water.

And to echo, priorities and needs changes once you have human beings who depend on you. When you're young and single, yes, but once you have kids a lot of things change. You can't be selfish when you have other lives that depend on you for their care and well being.

That is such a good point. When my kids were little, more than one bathroom was a necessity. I would never have subjected my children to living in substandard housing without hot water. That's not even legal! Nor would I have made them suffer through the summer heat when we could afford a house in the suburbs with multiple bathrooms and air conditioning.

We chose a cul-de-sac because our kids could play on the sidewalks, and even in the street, without having to worry about traffic. They could walk to their school, the playground, the church, and the neighborhood pool without ever crossing a street. With only 15 houses on the court everyone knew everyone and looked out for all the kids. We were very close to all our neighbors. On a court you have to be! Having lived in the city, and now out in the country, I can say that the suburbs are the perfect place to raise a family. The suburbs works best for families with children. Apparently some young people without kids can't understand that, but it doesn't make it any less true.

[Denton56]

Originally Posted by SammyKhalifa

I would have been thinking more about the two people who live by themselves and "need" 4 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms. If the entire nation lived like that we'd be in trouble. THAT's selfish.

Why would we ''be in trouble''? Our grandparents might have said the same thing about every family needing more than one car and an inside toilet!