Mon-Fayette Expressway to open on July 11, 2011 (Pittsburgh, Erie: salary, to live, airport)

[JoeP]

Those actually aren't different factors than the ones usually cited. And what tends to actually happen when the highway opens up is all the investments are made in the new greenfield locations, and the disinvestment in the established locations actually accelerates. Meanwhile, the highway becomes a permanent land-value-destroying feature, not just directly along the path but also on both sides for quite a distance.

Again, this isn't about "purity", it is about observing what really happens to the areas they slice through, versus what they promise will happen.

Yes, those issues are usually cited, but again, these communities already have died. A highway won't make these areas worse, but it can provide access.

Meanwhile, the highway becomes a permanent land-value-destroying feature, not just directly along the path but also on both sides for quite a distance.

The Mon Valley is plentiful in areas rotting of decades of decay. Clearing out some of that decay is a plus. Oh wait, maybe I'm wrong and can review all of the threads here asking on where to move to in the Mon Valley...

A bad idea for a brownfield is Homestead - well it was fine in theory, but all it did was take away from existing retail and waste prime river land with a not well planned mess of big boxes. Little thought went into what retail makes sense or on planning it well in terms of design and walk ability (or lack there of) etc

which is not actually a complete non-starter, despite allegations to the contrary).

There is little traction or political will/leadership in expanding rail where it would quickly make sense and thrive. It's been 25 years since the T opened and only in the last few years have the begun on another spur and that spur barely goes beyond one river.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by JoeP

Yes, those issues are usually cited, but again, these communities already have died. A highway won't make these areas worse, but it can provide access.

Oh, a highway bypass certainly could make them even worse, and sharply constrain any possibility of future investment and revitalization.

I'm not going to respond to the rest of your post in detail. I'd just suggest looking carefully at the PennFuture plan I linked, which explains how little benefit the Mon Valley would actually get from the MFE, and lays out a bunch of alternatives that would do much, much more to help. And while some of those alternatives may not find funding in the near future, one of that plan's virtues is that it is not all-or-nothing.

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

The bypass already exists, so I'm not sure what the debate is about. People are already bypassing the Mon Valley towns. For me, the real issue is the stretch of 51 between the Liberty Tubes and Century III, one of our areas most dangerous and congested roads. I'd think it would be in our region's best interest to either completely upgrade this stretch of road or develop an alternative route to the southeast, regardless of the rest of the completed MFE.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by trlstreet

For me, the real issue is the stretch of 51 between the Liberty Tubes and Century III, one of our areas most dangerous and congested roads. I'd think it would be in our region's best interest to either completely upgrade this stretch of road or develop an alternative route to the southeast, regardless of the rest of the completed MFE.

So the PennFuture plan addresses this route with a plan to construct an "urban boulevard" (a four-lane divided road with access for driveways and commercial lots mostly filtered through parallel service roads) from the terminus of the MFE at Large all the way up 51 to the Liberty tubes. 885 and 837 would get the same treatment, so from Century III you could also use those boulevards to access Oakland and the South Side directly (without going through Downtown via 51).

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

I should have opened the link before. I like it. Has there been any real push behind this plan?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by trlstreet

I should have opened the link before. I like it. Has there been any real push behind this plan?

I guess it depends on what you mean by "real push". That was a 2002 plan, and since then I believe there have been more plans for the roads in the Mon Valley along the same lines. But I don't think much of this has yet made it into the Southwest Pennsylvania Commission's transportation plans (short or long range), and the basic problem is a lack of funding across the board.

[Herodotus]

I don't see how this highway would do anything but suck more of the life out of Pittsburgh. More Cranberrys to be built. This time near the Mon Valley. I never understood why the southern half was routed into WV anyway. 79 isn't that far away. It would have been much more useful if it had been routed into western Maryland, giving us a real alternative route to DC, and removing some of the traffic from the turnpike that's headed towards 95 south.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

I never understood why the southern half was routed into WV anyway.

I sense the handiwork of Senator Byrd.

[WestLibertyAve]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

It would have been much more useful if it had been routed into western Maryland, giving us a real alternative route to DC, and removing some of the traffic from the turnpike that's headed towards 95 south.

Agreed. I drive to Deep Creek several times throughout the year and typically take 43 to 40 instead of 79. Everytime I get to Uniontown I wonder why the toll road cuts back to the west (edit: got my directions mixed up) and I'm stuck in a long line of cars following a slow moving tractor trailer through the Nemacolin Woodlands.

Cutting off that corner instead of taking 79 to Morgantown saves about 35-40 miles, but the time is essentially the same because of the slower traffic on the 2 lane roads. Toll or not, if 43 went westward from Uniontown and hooked up with 68 around Bruceton Mills, Friendsville, or Keyser's Ridge, I think a lot of people would use it as an alternate route to/from Pittsburgh.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

I don't see how this highway would do anything but suck more of the life out of Pittsburgh. More Cranberrys to be built.

Except that suburban sprawl is minimal along tolled highways. Drive I-79 between Washington and Cranberry, and you get the idea that you're near a large city. Drive the Pennsylvania Turnpike between Cranberry and New Stanton, and you'd have no idea that a large city is so close by. Hell, there's more development along I-70 than there is along the Pennsylvania Turnpike, and it's twice as far away from the city. "Freeways" facilitate suburban sprawl. Tolled highways do not.