Missing Forumer. What happened to Evergrey? (restaurant, moving, property)

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by glowrock

I think the mods are frankly best buddies with a couple of specific forumers, and those forumers more or less control the actions of the mods (at least the local mods).

Perhaps I just have a guilty conscience (or perhaps this isn't the first time such an accusation has been hurled towards me in particular by another member) but I can guarantee that I'm by no means "best buddies" with moderation. I've been given numerous infractions since I joined this forum over six years ago, especially by the NoVA sub-forum moderators. Let's be honest. Even the best of us can get caught up in the heat of the moment when our testosterone is running high, see someting inflammatory, and go hog wild instead of just ignoring it or reporting it, as we should. I've come close to banishment, but I think for me my longevity coupled with the fact that I seem to have done more good than harm for this forum over the long-term has saved me.

In regards to Evergrey specifically I always look forward to when he, Gnutella, BrianTH, and other forum intellectuals convene in a thread to discuss local demographics trends, economic reports, etc. because I feel like I learn so much more about the area than I had ever imagined (and I'd presume others could say the same). I really do hope BrianTH is incorrect for this one rare occasion and that Evergrey self-imposed his banishment as a temporary measure.

With that being said this entire thread is probably going to be locked soon, and Yac will probably chastise us for questioning moderation's decision and/or singling out one member in particular in a thread for specific discussion. I just agree that if Evergrey is indeed gone for good it's nice to have a short-lived thread on here to say "good-bye". It's posters like Evergrey that have, in my opinion, made the Pittsburgh sub-forum the BEST on City-Data, and he must have done something truly reprehensible to have been banned.

[glowrock]

Trust me, I'm not making any accusations at any particular forumer or group of forumers, SCR. That being said, I still look forward to moderation saying something about this, because until they do, I'm going to continue to search for answers here. I still see myself being banned shortly for bringing this up, and I'm actually kind of looking forward to it. It would prove that the moderation is behind this and that they're afraid to explain their actions.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by glowrock

Trust me, I'm not making any accusations at any particular forumer or group of forumers, SCR. That being said, I still look forward to moderation saying something about this, because until they do, I'm going to continue to search for answers here. I still see myself being banned shortly for bringing this up, and I'm actually kind of looking forward to it. It would prove that the moderation is behind this and that they're afraid to explain their actions.

It's not that moderation is "afraid to explain their actions". It's that moderation, as per the terms of service (TOS), doesn't have to explain their actions. Believe me, there is another PA moderator whose actions against another member I once questioned because they seemed illogical. I was given an infraction in return. Like it or not we agreed to abide by this forum's TOS to play by Advameg's rules---rules which grant moderators (all of whom but two are volunteers) to use their own best judgment in handing out banishments to ward off those who threaten the forum's overall visibility, vitality, exposure, and profitability.

Even if we don't see anything damning within Evergrey's posting history we don't know if he sent out inflammatory/offensive DMs or even just DMs that encouraged City-Data members to join other forums.

[Katarina Witt]

^^The mods have a pretty firm policy of NOT discussing moderator actions, especially about specific posters. Frankly, I think that is an appropriate policy. Like some others, I have gotten caught up in arguments with other posters on various fora, including this one. I do not think posters who have been infracted need to have their "misdeeds" on public display. A mod might tell you something in a DM, but if you repeated it online, you'd probably get an infraction. The forums should not be "gossip central".

[glowrock]

I would normally agree, but we're talking about a long-time forumer who has posted numerous informative posts over a period of at least several years. I think an explanation in this specific situation is called for. If it were a forumer who's relatively new, if it were someone who's been known to be inflammatory to others, someone with such strong opinions as to render them literally unable to see the other side of the same coin, etc., I would agree.

And yes, being a moderator on another forum, I do understand the need to not air out dirty laundry. However, if I were to propose banning a long-time forumer, I would need to be damn sure to double-check my proposition with a number of other fellow mods, not to mention probably having an administrator or two make their judgment call as well.

All I'm saying is that something seems to stink here, Katiana. I'm not sure what exactly it is that stinks, but it's coming from somewhere, and perhaps it's time that the source of the stink be exposed.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by glowrock

I would normally agree, but we're talking about a long-time forumer who has posted numerous informative posts over a period of at least several years. I think an explanation in this specific situation is called for. If it were a forumer who's relatively new, if it were someone who's been known to be inflammatory to others, someone with such strong opinions as to render them literally unable to see the other side of the same coin, etc., I would agree.

And yes, being a moderator on another forum, I do understand the need to not air out dirty laundry. However, if I were to propose banning a long-time forumer, I would need to be damn sure to double-check my proposition with a number of other fellow mods, not to mention probably having an administrator or two make their judgment call as well.

All I'm saying is that something seems to stink here, Katiana. I'm not sure what exactly it is that stinks, but it's coming from somewhere, and perhaps it's time that the source of the stink be exposed.

Speaking as a member whose absence would be noticed if and when my status were to read "Not a member" I would strongly prefer my privacy as opposed to having the moderator(s) who made the judgment call to kick me out air the circumstances surrounding the controversy for all to read. For all I know my participation in this thread alone could warrant me banishment, and if it did I wouldn't want Yac to crack his proverbial whip and say "SCR was banned for discussion pertaining to another member's banishment. Let this serve as an example to the rest of you." That would just be embarrassing to me, the subject in question, and it would also likely lead to just more controversial backlash by those who felt the punishment was too severe.

I'm sure Evergrey is lurking and observing this thread in "read-only" mode. I'm sure he's appreciative of us missing him as a member, but I'm also certain he doesn't want "dirty laundry" being aired. Moderators don't "need" to "answer" to forum participants. Moderators have a thankless job, and most of them do this on a voluntary basis. We agree to be subject to moderation as per the forum's terms of service (TOS). If we violate the TOS we agree that we can and will be punished up to and including permanent banishment. I have my own theory surrounding Evergrey's abrupt departure; however, posting it publicly isn't a nice thing to do.

While we're on the subject of "missing/missed forumers", though, whatever happened to jay5835? I really enjoyed his contributions. I hope he's ok.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by glowrock

All I'm saying is that something seems to stink here, Katiana. I'm not sure what exactly it is that stinks, but it's coming from somewhere, and perhaps it's time that the source of the stink be exposed.

Not so sure I agree. The moderation on this board (Pittsburgh) has improved greatly since I first became a member here. I do not agree with everything the mods do, far from it, but I think from their perspective anyway, they had a good reason. You can't have two sets of TOS, one for "long term posters" and one for everyone else.

I'm not much of a conspiracy person. I never found anyone here who seemed like they personally opposed Evergrey.

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Speaking as a member whose absence would be noticed if and when my status were to read "Not a member" I would strongly prefer my privacy as opposed to having the moderator(s) who made the judgment call to kick me out air the circumstances surrounding the controversy for all to read. For all I know my participation in this thread alone could warrant me banishment, and if it did I wouldn't want Yac to crack his proverbial whip and say "SCR was banned for discussion pertaining to another member's banishment. Let this serve as an example to the rest of you." That would just be embarrassing to me, the subject in question, and it would also likely lead to just more controversial backlash by those who felt the punishment was too severe.

I'm sure Evergrey is lurking and observing this thread in "read-only" mode. I'm sure he's appreciative of us missing him as a member, but I'm also certain he doesn't want "dirty laundry" being aired. Moderators don't "need" to "answer" to forum participants. Moderators have a thankless job, and most of them do this on a voluntary basis. We agree to be subject to moderation as per the forum's terms of service (TOS). If we violate the TOS we agree that we can and will be punished up to and including permanent banishment. I have my own theory surrounding Evergrey's abrupt departure; however, posting it publicly isn't a nice thing to do.

What he said, esp. the bold.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Katiana

^^The mods have a pretty firm policy of NOT discussing moderator actions, especially about specific posters. Frankly, I think that is an appropriate policy. Like some others, I have gotten caught up in arguments with other posters on various fora, including this one. I do not think posters who have been infracted need to have their "misdeeds" on public display. A mod might tell you something in a DM, but if you repeated it online, you'd probably get an infraction. The forums should not be "gossip central".

I dunno. The forum I spent the most time on historically, the mod always publicly replies to the "final straw" posts in order to ensure the forum at large knows the reason for banning. It really cuts down on the amount of hearsay and ensures that people know when behavior crosses a line.

That said, sockpuppeting is a cause for an immediate banning, so if Evergray did this, it's totally understandable.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I dunno. The forum I spent the most time on historically, the mod always publicly replies to the "final straw" posts in order to ensure the forum at large knows the reason for banning. It really cuts down on the amount of hearsay and ensures that people know when behavior crosses a line.

Every site has its own way of handling things. I was the head (only) administrator of a very large active debate forum for over 10 years. Based on my extensive experience testing various policies to handle this type of issue, I feel City Data's way of doing things is the best route to minimize the drama.

[ML North]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

While we're on the subject of "missing/missed forumers", though, whatever happened to jay5835? I really enjoyed his contributions. I hope he's ok.

I also really enjoyed Jay's input, especially regarding food and restaurants.