Time to connect Federal Street again (Pittsburgh, Washington: rental, to live, shoppers)

[pman]

Originally Posted by Q-tip motha

The neighborhood is perfectly accessible as it is. Last time I checked you can still access all of the northside streets via your vehicle. ...
That people do not realize how great the north side is (I am a fan), has nothing to do with the fact that they're forced to take a curve around the mall versus going straight from one end of federal to the next.

I notice you mention using your vehicle. if you got out of your vehicle and used your two legs you might see why the mall is such an idiotic building. removing it would be a good use of tax dollars and probably wouldn't cost all that much considering you could redevelop the land. sometimes you have to admit mistakes and rectify them.

Originally Posted by Q-tip motha

I used to feel that way as well until I actually renovated one of those buildings and now fully comprehend the cost and effort associated with preservation. There isn't a waiting list to own a lot of those old places for a reason.

it sounds good to say that but the fact is people are buying and renovating the old buildings which undermines your position. the reality is the buildings weren't available for sale so you can't assume that there was no buyer for them.

[airwave09]

Originally Posted by Q-tip motha

The neighborhood is perfectly accessible as it is. Last time I checked you can still access all of the northside streets via your vehicle.

What a terrible argument. I heard that you can access all of Cranberry in your vehicle as well.

The entire point of an urban neighborhood is for it to be completely accessible on foot, as well as through many other modes of transportation.

[Gee Whiz]

There is a lot more to it than simply knocking down a building to take a shortcut up or down Federal. To see it that way is short sightedness. This is about perception. This is about opening up a neighborhood. This is about looking and being more inviting. Sure, it will be expensive. Whatever it costs, it will be worth it. This about more than trying to knock off a couple minutes when traveling on foot from say PNC Park to the the Monterey Pub in the Mexican War Streets or wherever. If you are an out of towner, you have no idea what is beyond the old mall. One is most likely to turn around when they see this barrier. This hinders the North Side and the city. You have to try and envision the big picture. The old Allegheny Center Mall just kills the North Side from being what is could be. Let's stop being cynical and quit asking "Well, who's going to pay for it?" Or "We Can't Do That!" This is exactly the sort of thinking that was derailing this city for many years. It was Mayor Murphy who used to say to naysayers "We Can! We Will!" The city is becoming more progressive all of the time. I would like to see my taxes go to something like this. It is a small thing, but it all adds up to a better city and a better quality of life.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by Gee Whiz

There is a lot more to it than simply knocking down a building to take a shortcut up or down Federal. To see it that way is short sightedness. This is about perception. This is about opening up a neighborhood. This is about looking and being more inviting. Sure, it will be expensive. Whatever it costs, it will be worth it. This about more than trying to knock off a couple minutes when traveling on foot from say PNC Park to the the Monterey Pub in the Mexican War Streets or wherever. If you are an out of towner, you have no idea what is beyond the old mall.

Maybe the people in the central North Side really don't want to be opened up to the North Shore and town? They really weren't opened up before the mall went in, the park and the rails- and I think before that the canal -always set them apart. They are just as close to town now, just as convenient, as if you removed the entire Allegheny Center.

Pittsburgh is a city of well-defined villages, usually with pretty firm barriers- hills, deep valleys, rail lines- that made it clear exactly where you were at.

I'd really want to hear what the hoi polloi north of North Avenue think about the whole thing, it would really shake up the entire thing they have going on, and they apparently do like it considering the decent real estate prices in that sector.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

Maybe the people in the central North Side really don't want to be opened up to the North Shore and town? They really weren't opened up before the mall went in, the park and the rails- and I think before that the canal -always set them apart. They are just as close to town now, just as convenient, as if you removed the entire Allegheny Center.

Pittsburgh is a city of well-defined villages, usually with pretty firm barriers- hills, deep valleys, rail lines- that made it clear exactly where you were at.

I'd really want to hear what the hoi polloi north of North Avenue think about the whole thing, it would really shake up the entire thing they have going on, and they apparently do like it considering the decent real estate prices in that sector.

I lived in the War Streets for a while and I would have loved this. I think the north side is thriving *in spite* of the separation, not because of it. When you talk to people who live there they espouse the convenience and closeness of everything; reconnecting the street grid would only improve that.

[Gee Whiz]

I know someone who lives in the War Streets and he most surely want this. I do not live there. I would like to, ESPECIALLY if they connect Federal again. I respect the fact that ..some may not want it, but I disagree with them wholeheartedly. This is not like we are trying to connect a crime ridden area full of blight to the Mexican War Streets. We are connecting the North Shore and Downtown. The old mall is more blighted IMHO.

[Lobick]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

Maybe the people in the central North Side really don't want to be opened up to the North Shore and town? ...

I'd really want to hear what the hoi polloi north of North Avenue think about the whole thing, it would really shake up the entire thing they have going on, and they apparently do like it considering the decent real estate prices in that sector.

Well, I live 1/2 block up from North Ave and walk into town, weather permitting, with my wife and our two boys in a double stroller almost every day. I certainly think that some changes need to be made to Allegheny Center but I'm not entirely convinced that full demolition is the answer either.

Honestly, I think by far the biggest problem is the four lane "ring road" around the perimeter. It encourages high speed driving despite its crazy right angle turns. To my mind, it is the moat effect the road creates, with the complete lack of any ground floor retail, treescape, or recognition that pedestrians exist that is the most significant problem. It's not so much that you have to walk around the perimeter of the old mall building as it is that it's just a very unpleasant place to walk. That can be improved short of demolition and the road affords you a ton of space to do so. It doesn't need to be four lanes wide and it could become a great pedestrian experience.

More often, when I'm walking to town, I walk down Merchant Street and cut through parking lots over to Federal Street. Believe it or not, it's a more pleasant trip.

I don't think I'm in favor of fully reconnecting the street grid, especially to vehicle traffic. With the renovation of the Buhl park across from the Children's Museum, that is actually a pretty pleasant pedestrian space. Tons of kids running around, the cloud machine installation, it really is pretty nice. From a pedestrian standpoint, East Ohio street to Western Avenue is a straight shot. Certainly, if a pedestian-only connection was created for Federal, I'd be in full support.

The post office could certainly be relocated/ demolished and it was on a list of potential closures not too long ago.

In general, I think the physical barriers that exist between the North Shore and Allegheny City Central (former Central North Side) are what they are and will always be impediments to full integration...but I'm cool with that because, in practice, they're not all that significant once you've done the walk. I really enjoy the fact that, on Merchant Street, once you cross under the train tacks and walk up the small hill that you emerge into the Allegheny Commons and I really do feel like I'm in a completely different place and almost home.

[Lobick]

The Apartments in Allegheny Center are apparently for sale:

Allegheny Center Apartments up for sale - Pittsburgh Business Times

[norcider]

If you have North Side roots you want this huge eye sore razed. It also represents to many, the city's ongoing destruction (RT 65, I279, RT28 etc) of what is left of Old Allegheny City.

[eschaton]

The existence of Allegheny Center is the biggest trepidation my wife and I have about moving to the North Side. I mean, the residential neighborhoods are getting better and better all around, but you're basically forced to live next door to a rotting corpse of failed mid-century urban planning.