Wolf's short sided tax plan puts Shell plant on hold (Philadelphia: credit, school districts)

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by pman

It will be spent all over the state, isn't he proposing to use it for the state education fund? Do taxes paid by vanguard only get used in chester county?

The question on this is when the tax money doesn't materialize in the amounts forecast, are taxes going to have to be raised elsewhere to make up for the deficit in the amounts promised for the teachers?

[pman]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

The question on this is when the tax money doesn't materialize in the amounts forecast, are taxes going to have to be raised elsewhere to make up for the deficit in the amounts promised for the teachers?

Perhaps you should use conservative revenue forecast. If we don't pass a gas tax there will be a push for revenue from somewhere else. Right now it's coming from property taxes.

[bradjl2009]

Because Shell has sure been showing so many signs of starting to build and develop this site since it was proposed in 2012.......

[Goinback2011]

Originally Posted by pman

It will be spent all over the state, isn't he proposing to use it for the state education fund? Do taxes paid by vanguard only get used in chester county?

The costs in jobs will be born by the area in which drilling is occurring.

The tax benefits should go to those areas.

[PITairport]

The major problem with Wolf's plan is not an issue of tax breaks or corporate welfare for Shell, but an issue of throwing good money after bad.

How much more money should be spent on education per student? The cost per student has skyrocketed, yet student test scores in America remain an embarassment when compared to other first world countries.

This link illustrates the rising cost per student in America over the years adjusted for inflation:
Total and current expenditures per pupil in public elementary and secondary schools: Selected years, 1919-20 through 2008-09



Here we have nations ranked by spending per student:




Here we have an education ranking of first world counties and city-states:
Educational Score Performance - Country Rankings


Finally, here is a combined picture showing cost per student (adjusted for inflation) and student scores over time:




As one can see, spending substantially more per student has not and will not lead to better results.


Perhaps, just maybe, the education system needs a complete overhaul instead of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Perhaps teacher pay and advancement should be merit based and perhaps we should stop lowering test standards so that everyone passes in a futile attempt at political correctness.


THIS is why I am against Wolf's plan; and doubly against it if Royal Dutch Shell does indeed decide to bail on this project. Thankfully that has not happened yet, so the OP's headline is misleading.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Goinback2011

The costs in jobs will be born by the area in which drilling is occurring.

The tax benefits should go to those areas.

Seems silly. You could make the same argument about any tax. Why should allegheny county and sepa have their tax dollars be siphoned off to Fayette County and other places like it? Why suddenly when places that hadn't contributed anything in decades start paying taxes that their taxes should only benefit those areas? There isn't even proof that there will be a cost in terms of jobs. Jobs are already being lost in those areas because gas prices are down. The employment will fluctuate with demand not necessarily the tax. As has been pointed out most other places have a tax. You might argue that education is or isn't the right place to out it but most pennsylvanian support some kind of tax...they did not support the generous deal given to shell.
Pit the frustrating thing is we all know it's going to pensions. I'm not against increasing state education funding but I would like to see him forced to address the cost side. Luckily we have a split party government so that is what we should rationally expect

[charisb]

Originally Posted by PITairport

As one can see, spending substantially more per student has not and will not lead to better results.

I have a question about these 'spending per students' calculations, namely--how exactly are they calculated? Because if they include the cost of teachers' healthcare and pensions, that is going to drive up U.S. numbers but isn't going to directly improve student learning.
I know that calculating city and district spending on schools can be tricky so I admit I am very leery of international data that may be telling us more about the U.S. overall than it is about the U.S. educational system.

[Goinback2011]

Originally Posted by pman

Seems silly. You could make the same argument about any tax. Why should allegheny county and sepa have their tax dollars be siphoned off to Fayette County and other places like it? Why suddenly when places that hadn't contributed anything in decades start paying taxes that their taxes should only benefit those areas? There isn't even proof that there will be a cost in terms of jobs. Jobs are already being lost in those areas because gas prices are down. The employment will fluctuate with demand not necessarily the tax. As has been pointed out most other places have a tax. You might argue that education is or isn't the right place to out it but most pennsylvanian support some kind of tax...they did not support the generous deal given to shell.
Pit the frustrating thing is we all know it's going to pensions. I'm not against increasing state education funding but I would like to see him forced to address the cost side. Luckily we have a split party government so that is what we should rationally expect

I'm not opposed to the tax.

I'm opposed to giving it to the areas outside of the shale regions of PA.

[gg]

Originally Posted by zip95

Personally, I think it would be spectacularly short sighted for PA to give away its natural resources for free.

You really shouldn't comment on this. The resources are mostly owned by people/companies with the rights, not the state. Any income is already TAXED to death in PA. DEATH! MANY states don't have massive state taxes like PA does. You do understand there are already taxes in place on incomes correct? We are talking about another tax on top of what is already in place. I don't think people have a clue about business at all. It is clear Wolf is clueless. Watch him chase business out of PA and find ways of extracting more money out of companies here and wonder why there is no growth. He is an idiot!

[gg]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

This is still nonsense. Thirty-nine percent of voters is a minority, but not a special interest. The lack of a tax on gas extraction was a special interest. .

If the idiot Wolf was working for the WILL OF THE PEOPLE, he would privatize liquor, but he is going to veto it instead. Therefore, he is all about special interest, because he isn't going along with the people that mistakenly put him there. You do understand the "will of the people"? A majority? You know, what people want! He is going against what people in PA want, therefore he is all about special interest. One big phony!

Also, there are TONS of taxes in place already attached to gas. An extraction tax is on top of the massive taxes in place. You do understand income taxes don't you? I get a kick out of people that feel there is no tax on Range or whoever taking fuel from our lands as if it is free. Hardly! Range pays taxes, the land owners pay taxes, the workers pay taxes and whoever is involved pays taxes. Stockholders of Range pay more taxes and so-on. Now you want another NEW f'n tax????? For what? This state is so backwards it amazes me. I hope Shell tells Wolf to stick it. We deserve to lose them as well as others for being so short term in our thinking.