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I have never cried "woe is me" I was not raised that way. Woe is me would get your ass kicked in my house. Braddock opened up employment and my black neighbor who is 70 is still employed there. Opening up to blacks do to pressure does not eliminate the hostility in the workplace. Unions were the worst when it comes to exclusion so I dont understand the point you are trying to make.
Black professionals that are just as aggressive and cut throat as their white counterparts are often labeled as arrogant. We are expected to stay in our place and accept what is given.
(It's "due" in the third line of your post.)
I did NOT express that you said it was you that "cried 'woe is me' ".
You took my point of how everyone has had negative experiences (especially in an office) and turned it into a supposed double standard. That was not my point....at all.
A few months ago, I offered a comment to another person of color, and you chimed in that I was telling black people how to raise their kids. I love you for the impression I get of you and your family (being decent people, from just from what I've read), but you would drive me crazy if I knew you personally.
I did NOT express that you said it was you that "cried 'woe is me' ".
You took my point of how everyone has had negative experiences (especially in an office) and turned it into a supposed double standard. That was not my point....at all.
A few months ago, I offered a comment to another person of color, and you chimed in that I was telling black people how to raise their kids. I love you for the impression I get of you and your family (being decent people, from just from what I've read), but you would drive me crazy if I knew you personally.
There are negative experiences in the office and then there are racially driven experience in the office that only a person of color would recognize. During the 2008 presidential elections the atmosphere changed overnight. Pleasant hello's were replaced by nothing. Not even eye contact. During the 9/11 bombing my middle eastern friends were taunted in the work place. I had to refresh the white co workers memories with Timothy McVeigh.
Most people either love me or hate my effin guts. Im used to it. i speak an honest truth and never once asked for white folks to understand. Its a black thing, you dont understand and probably never will.
There's a lot of resentment from the socioeconomically-underprivileged and academically-underachieving subset of the African-American community in Pittsburgh towards whites, attributing their ailments to race instead of poor life choices, so I wouldn't necessarily say race relations here are that great. With that being said there are also socioeconomically-underprivileged and academically-underachieving whites in this country who blame "dem der illegals" (a.k.a. "all brown people") for their ailments instead of looking in the mirror.
I've had African-Americans launch a boycott against our business last year because I disagreed with them closing local streets to protest the Michael Brown slaying in Ferguson because, apparently, if you disagree with street closures while you're in the business of getting things from Point A to Point B in the most efficient manner, then you're an adherent to #BlackLivesDon'tMatter. I later learned the leaders of that boycott were proponents of boycotts against other white-owned businesses in general, which irked me even more.
A few weeks ago a woman from the Homewood area became nasty on the phone with me because she was told she was outside of our delivery radius (due to crime-related reasons---not race-related reasons). Nevertheless she pulled the race card in a diatribe until I finally politely told her to have a nice evening and hung up because I was done being verbally harangued.
I've actually, sadly, become more racist---not more tolerant---since moving here because I'm tiring of this subset blaming me, a struggling white guy, for their problems that are mostly NOT attributed to race. Homewood being the way it is today with weekly shootings, carjackings, etc. isn't my fault. It's also not the fault of white people at-large, either, despite what the upper-middle-class educated East End whites on this sub-forum like to perpetuate due to their "white guilt". I refuse to keep apologizing because prior generations of my race were hostile, aggressive, or downright racist towards members of other races. How can you be held accountable for problems that occurred decades before you were even conceived?
What happened in this country's past was certainly egregious, but if people keep pulling the race card at a moment's notice, then healing will never occur. I was labeled a racist for hypothesizing from the beginning that Michael Brown was NOT gunned down by Officer Darren Wilson with his hands up while pleading "don't shoot" simply because it didn't make any sense for an officer to gun down a person with their hands up pleading for their life. The DOJ recently vindicated me, as it further substantiated the fact that the "hands up; don't shoot" thing NEVER even happened. Where's my apology from those who were wrong?
I'm gay. I was bullied for being gay. I hear homophobic remarks on a regular basis. A former boss of mine was homophobic and contributed to my departure from a position I loved. Prior generations of homosexuals were beaten, sexually assaulted, discriminated against, etc. much worse than current generations of homosexuals in this country. Videos recently surfaced of homosexuals being thrown from their deaths from rooftops abroad. Guess what? I'm not "pulling the gay card". I'm bootstrapping myself and working as many hours per week as I can to achieve my life goals without harboring any resentment towards heterosexuals at-large because a subset of heterosexuals are homophobic. Speaking of homophobia, I've met more Christian blacks who are against same-sex marriage than Christian whites who are against it.
One last thing I'd like to add is that I'm tired of being told "blacks can't be racist", usually by upper-middle-class white-guilt-perpetuating apologists I've learned to resent. ANY individual is capable of believing their race is superior to another race. Asians can think they're better than blacks. Blacks can think they're better than whites. Whites can think they're better than Hispanics. Hispanics can think they're better than Asians. I guess East Enders never learned that at Harvard or Yale.
Race relations certainly aren't as bad in Pittsburgh as they are in many other cities, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking Pittsburgh is a Utopian melting pot. I make a concerted effort to recruit a diverse workforce at our business, which is now close to representing the demographics of the city at-large (although I wish more females would apply). I've made it a point to speak up when I hear fellow whites making any sort of disparaging remarks towards blacks. Do blacks in this city also speak up in defense of whites when fellow blacks are the ones on the offending end of insensitive racially-inflammatory remarks? I would hope so. If not, then more work needs to be done on ALL sides.
As a long-time reader, I can def attest that you've become more racist over the years.
Calling Pittsburgh "racist" because the percentage of the overall city population that is both black and possesses a degree is tiny isn't really fair unless someone can prove to me that the reason why so few blacks in Pittsburgh have degrees is because the city is racist. Nobody has proven that to me yet, and that's what I want an analysis of---not being called a "racist" for asking for it to be done.
It does not fall on others to prove that you are ignorant, naive and offensive. But if that is the reaction you are receiving from others so frequently, it might be time for some introspection. Most have stopped responding in this thread because quite clearly an ongoing train wreck, but I am replying only to encourage you to stop, sit back and reevaluate.
Of course it is instinctual for you to double down on deeply held beliefs, but this does not mean they are correct. I think you are confusing abrasive, offensive baiting with the initiation of a thoughtful dialog. You repeatedly express deep racial resentments and simultaneously (and ironically) question how black people could ever suffer discrimination in this country at the hands of those harboring similar deeply held resentments.
Racism is not a cut and dry set of paradigms that can simply be switched on and off. It is a term that loosely (clumsily even) describes pervasive societal prejudices as they hinder, impede, and systematically subjugate a group of people. Formal de jure elements of this subjugation were removed (partially) fifty years ago but the deeply held internal prejudices live on. You're assuming the role of the aggrieved white working class person expressing a tired screed of frustration and resentment against those blacks you perceive to be asking for or receiving a leg up. This rhetoric is nothing new. So long as you focus your resentment in that direction (and it is resentment, despite your statements that you have "accepted your lot"), this kind of prejudice will be perpetuated.
As a long-time reader, I can def attest that you've become more racist over the years.
Being told to "check your privilege" enough times by people, especially fellow whites, who think I have it better off simply because of the color of my skin will certainly trend you in that direction. Slavery was abolished in the 1800s. The Civil Rights Movement was during the 1960s. We have an African-American president, and some of the most influential people of our time consist of Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, and Oprah Winfrey, all of whom are role models to not only African-Americans but to society at-large. Thanks to affirmative action it is now more likely than ever that African-Americans will not only have equal access to institutions and opportunities but also advantageous access to those institutions and opportunities.
Nobody has convinced me that police in this country, at-large, are more likely to kill an African-American vs. a white person, Asian person, or Hispanic person. CNN did so much race-baiting that an African-American shot and nearly killed two police officers who were just standing guard in Ferguson a few weeks ago, and unlike Michael Brown, the criminal whom they elevated to heroic status, they barely made reference to the condition of the officers or how their own sensationalist journalism riled up the uneducated into such a violent bloodthirsty "hands up; don't shoot" frenzy. Nearly all of the homicides in this city are black-on-black. It's not "being a racist" to point that out. It's being truthful, and, why, yes, sometimes the truth hurts. If young black males have a greater propensity to be killing other young black males more than any other demographic, then it only stands to reason that they stand a greater chance of dying at the hands of the police because they happen to be putting themselves into the position of violence in front of the police more frequently than other demographic. That's not "racist". That's the truth.
Nobody in this country can say "I'm wrong"; "It's my fault"; or "I accept personal responsibility for my (in)actions" anymore. It's always the fault of someone else---the system, the man, the 1%, etc., etc., and then the media jumps in to latch onto the coattails of those popular sentiments to further fuel the fire to garner better ratings. I've been wronged so many times by so many people already, and I almost never receive an apology. Contrariwise if I err I always reach out and try to rectify the situation to the best of my ability. When I see people in this thread blaming today's whites for the problems that blacks faced decades ago I can't help but not have much empathy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Schwabe
It does not fall on others to prove that you are ignorant, naive and offensive. But if that is the reaction you are receiving from others so frequently, it might be time for some introspection. Most have stopped responding in this thread because quite clearly an ongoing train wreck, but I am replying only to encourage you to stop, sit back and reevaluate.
Of course it is instinctual for you to double down on deeply held beliefs, but this does not mean they are correct. I think you are confusing abrasive, offensive baiting with the initiation of a thoughtful dialog. You repeatedly express deep racial resentments and simultaneously (and ironically) question how black people could ever suffer discrimination in this country at the hands of those harboring similar deeply held resentments.
Racism is not a cut and dry set of paradigms that can simply be switched on and off. It is a term that loosely (clumsily even) describes pervasive societal prejudices as they hinder, impede, and systematically subjugate a group of people. Formal de jure elements of this subjugation were removed (partially) fifty years ago but the deeply held internal prejudices live on. You're assuming the role of the aggrieved white working class person expressing a tired screed of frustration and resentment against those blacks you perceive to be asking for or receiving a leg up. This rhetoric is nothing new. So long as you focus your resentment in that direction (and it is resentment, despite your statements that you have "accepted your lot"), this kind of prejudice will be perpetuated.
You're right. I'm very, very resentful of being called a racist at every turn for calling a spade a spade when entitlement mentality has overrun our society to the point where nobody wants to do anything on their own anymore without relying on a crutch or blaming someone else for why they can't get ahead.
So there are some old white uneducated yinzers out there in positions of authority who still think it's 1963. Guess what? They're a miserable minority and will be dead soon and be replaced in their positions of authority either by African-Americans OR by whites like me who have made a concerted effort to have our workforce reflect the diversity of our city by providing equal opportunities for candidates to secure employment, irrespective of gender, sexual orientation, religious affiliation, ethnicity, or, yes, race, too.
I've come across some workplaces that were hostile towards me due to my sexual orientation AND, unlike African-Americans, there wasn't a darn thing I could do about it legally because sexual orientation isn't a protected minority group in our Commonwealth. I chalked it up to "there are still SOME homophobes out there" and found other employment opportunities. Period. The end.
Wpipkins, as a black man, has found greater professional success than I as a white man. I'm not resentful of that. I'm supportive of that. He's worked harder his life to achieve success, and he's reaping the rewards he justly deserves. Isn't it then sort of disingenuous to infer that blacks can't make it here because of racist whites if Wpipkins can make it in an organization that is largely white? One of my dearest friends whom I lost touch with due to both of us relocating out of Northern Virginia simultaneously is a single African-American female raising a boy on her own. She grew up poor in Newark, NJ and is now earning high-five-figures with the Feds.
When the sky is the limit for 99% of black people in this country to pursue their dreams unfettered I refuse to permit myself to be labeled as a racist because I was born into "privilege" of some sort for being white. There are SOME black employers who are discriminatory towards whites. There are SOME straight employers who are discriminatory towards gays. There are SOME white employers who are discriminatory towards Asians. This whole "there's so much more work that needs to be done..." mantra is absolute nonsense being spewed out to stir the pot when we're entering an era in which a child born to a middle-class black, Asian, white, or Hispanic family all has the same opportunity available to lead a happy and successful life.
Being told to "check your privilege" enough times by people, especially fellow whites, who think I have it better off simply because of the color of my skin will certainly trend you in that direction. Slavery was abolished in the 1800s. The Civil Rights Movement was during the 1960s. We have an African-American president, and some of the most influential people of our time consist of Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, and Oprah Winfrey, all of whom are role models to not only African-Americans but to society at-large. Thanks to affirmative action it is now more likely than ever that African-Americans will not only have equal access to institutions and opportunities but also advantageous access to those institutions and opportunities.
Nobody has convinced me that police in this country, at-large, are more likely to kill an African-American vs. a white person, Asian person, or Hispanic person. CNN did so much race-baiting that an African-American shot and nearly killed two police officers who were just standing guard in Ferguson a few weeks ago, and unlike Michael Brown, the criminal whom they elevated to heroic status, they barely made reference to the condition of the officers or how their own sensationalist journalism riled up the uneducated into such a violent bloodthirsty "hands up; don't shoot" frenzy. Nearly all of the homicides in this city are black-on-black. It's not "being a racist" to point that out. It's being truthful, and, why, yes, sometimes the truth hurts. If young black males have a greater propensity to be killing other young black males more than any other demographic, then it only stands to reason that they stand a greater chance of dying at the hands of the police because they happen to be putting themselves into the position of violence in front of the police more frequently than other demographic. That's not "racist". That's the truth.
Nobody in this country can say "I'm wrong"; "It's my fault"; or "I accept personal responsibility for my (in)actions" anymore. It's always the fault of someone else---the system, the man, the 1%, etc., etc., and then the media jumps in to latch onto the coattails of those popular sentiments to further fuel the fire to garner better ratings. I've been wronged so many times by so many people already, and I almost never receive an apology. Contrariwise if I err I always reach out and try to rectify the situation to the best of my ability. When I see people in this thread blaming today's whites for the problems that blacks faced decades ago I can't help but not have much empathy.
You're right. I'm very, very resentful of being called a racist at every turn for calling a spade a spade when entitlement mentality has overrun our society to the point where nobody wants to do anything on their own anymore without relying on a crutch or blaming someone else for why they can't get ahead.
So there are some old white uneducated yinzers out there in positions of authority who still think it's 1963. Guess what? They're a miserable minority and will be dead soon and be replaced in their positions of authority either by African-Americans OR by whites like me who have made a concerted effort to have our workforce reflect the diversity of our city by providing equal opportunities for candidates to secure employment, irrespective of gender, sexual orientation, religious affiliation, ethnicity, or, yes, race, too.
I've come across some workplaces that were hostile towards me due to my sexual orientation AND, unlike African-Americans, there wasn't a darn thing I could do about it legally because sexual orientation isn't a protected minority group in our Commonwealth. I chalked it up to "there are still SOME homophobes out there" and found other employment opportunities. Period. The end.
Wpipkins, as a black man, has found greater professional success than I as a white man. I'm not resentful of that. I'm supportive of that. He's worked harder his life to achieve success, and he's reaping the rewards he justly deserves. Isn't it then sort of disingenuous to infer that blacks can't make it here because of racist whites if Wpipkins can make it in an organization that is largely white? One of my dearest friends whom I lost touch with due to both of us relocating out of Northern Virginia simultaneously is a single African-American female raising a boy on her own. She grew up poor in Newark, NJ and is now earning high-five-figures with the Feds.
When the sky is the limit for 99% of black people in this country to pursue their dreams unfettered I refuse to permit myself to be labeled as a racist because I was born into "privilege" of some sort for being white. There are SOME black employers who are discriminatory towards whites. There are SOME straight employers who are discriminatory towards gays. There are SOME white employers who are discriminatory towards Asians. This whole "there's so much more work that needs to be done..." mantra is absolute nonsense being spewed out to stir the pot when we're entering an era in which a child born to a middle-class black, Asian, white, or Hispanic family all has the same opportunity available to lead a happy and successful life.
You, I, and the vast majority of white Americans do have it easier because of our skin color. To claim otherwise is willfully obtuse.
How many times have you been let go with a warning instead of getting a ticket for a moving violation? Ever think that was because of skin color?
How many generations of your family before you have been homeowners? For me, at least four generations of homeownership among my working-class and middle-class white forebears. As recently as 15-20 years ago, most or all Pittsburgh banks had markedly lousy track records in lending to African-American customers, even though they were happy to take their deposits.
It's impossible to overstate the importance of families' ability to accumulate capital over time and over generations. And along with accumulating capital comes access to not only home ownership but ability to repair and improve one's home, automobile ownership, education, and other things that combine to make up economic and social mobility. And that's a really good reason why the sins that were perpetuated generations ago still matter. One need not have ancestors who traded in other humans to have benefitted from the peculiar institution. One need not have personally made a race-based personnel decision to have benefitted from time-honored pay discrimination practices. If African-Americans are getting the short end of the stick, it doesn't happen in a vacuum; it also means we've gotten more than our share.
While it sucks if some random individual of color doesn't care for white people, guess what- they're not affecting our lives.
I hope you can get help for your mental health issues.
Some black people do blame white people for their lot in life. So what? It's not a black thing, it's a human thing. I've known plenty of white people who say if only it wasn't for ___ they would have been a contender. Fact of the matter is most people don't like to blame themselves for life's misfortunes, and quite a good deal of people walk around with a chip on their shoulder and much resentment.
Note, none of this is to say that everything which happens to people is their own damn fault. But in my experience the extent to which someone blames themselves or others, works to improve themselves or sits on their laurels, seethes with resentment or lets bygones be bygones - is entirely orthogonal to race, class, gender, sexual orientation, whatever.
You, I, and the vast majority of white Americans do have it easier because of our skin color. To claim otherwise is willfully obtuse.
How many times have you been let go with a warning instead of getting a ticket for a moving violation? Ever think that was because of skin color?
How many generations of your family before you have been homeowners? For me, at least four generations of homeownership among my working-class and middle-class white forebears. As recently as 15-20 years ago, most or all Pittsburgh banks had markedly lousy track records in lending to African-American customers, even though they were happy to take their deposits.
It's impossible to overstate the importance of families' ability to accumulate capital over time and over generations. And along with accumulating capital comes access to not only home ownership but ability to repair and improve one's home, automobile ownership, education, and other things that combine to make up economic and social mobility. And that's a really good reason why the sins that were perpetuated generations ago still matter. One need not have ancestors who traded in other humans to have benefitted from the peculiar institution. One need not have personally made a race-based personnel decision to have benefitted from time-honored pay discrimination practices. If African-Americans are getting the short end of the stick, it doesn't happen in a vacuum; it also means we've gotten more than our share.
While it sucks if some random individual of color doesn't care for white people, guess what- they're not affecting our lives.
I hope you can get help for your mental health issues.
This is a good point point to bring up, especially on a forum about home ownership, renting and moving.
I know from my own personal experience, back in the 50s my grandfather wanted to build a home. He couldn't get a loan from the bank until he dug the foundation and put the walls up of his house. He built it himself without any roof.
Then he had to go to the bank again, and they sent some men to drive by to prove that he could do that, and THEN they gave him the loan.
Could you imagine how hard it would be if everyone had to go through that just to get a house built in the 50s-70s? When the government was handing out home owner subsidies left and right like candy to returning veterans? But he a returned WWII vet had to build the sides of his house and the foundation before they were willing to give him a loan?
That's a lot of money out of the pocket of a blue collar worker, and that was a policy explicitly due to his skin color. Things like that affected what types of things he could do for his family, whether his kids could go to college, what types of financial opportunities they could have because of what he could leave them...
Generational wealth and home ownership is so important to creating opportunities no matter what city you come from. There are exceptions to the rule of course, but it's still crazy for me to think about.
This is a good point point to bring up, especially on a forum about home ownership, renting and moving.
I know from my own personal experience, back in the 50s my grandfather wanted to build a home. He couldn't get a loan from the bank until he dug the foundation and put the walls up of his house. He built it himself without any roof.
Then he had to go to the bank again, and they sent some men to drive by to prove that he could do that, and THEN they gave him the loan.
Could you imagine how hard it would be if everyone had to go through that just to get a house built in the 50s-70s? When the government was handing out home owner subsidies left and right like candy to returning veterans? But he a returned WWII vet had to build the sides of his house and the foundation before they were willing to give him a loan?
That's a lot of money out of the pocket of a blue collar worker, and that was a policy explicitly due to his skin color. Things like that affected what types of things he could do for his family, whether his kids could go to college, what types of financial opportunities they could have because of what he could leave them...
Generational wealth and home ownership is so important to creating opportunities no matter what city you come from. There are exceptions to the rule of course, but it's still crazy for me to think about.
I have never cried "woe is me" I was not raised that way. Woe is me would get your ass kicked in my house. Braddock opened up employment and my black neighbor who is 70 is still employed there. Opening up to blacks do to pressure does not eliminate the hostility in the workplace. Unions were the worst when it comes to exclusion so I dont understand the point you are trying to make.
Black professionals that are just as aggressive and cut throat as their white counterparts are often labeled as arrogant. We are expected to stay in our place and accept what is given.
The steel mills in the mon valley opened up jobs to African Americans since at least 1892, Frick recruited some blacks as well as eastern Europeans to help in that expansion.
The industrial unions did initially bar blacks- as well as some other ethnicities- from membership, and separate Jim Crow seniority lists were maintained through the 1960's, making it more difficult for blacks to get into the choice jobs.
Remember that the Civil Rights act banned discrimination by labor unions. No law is written up outlawing something that isn't happening.
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I love you for the impression I get of you and your family (being decent people, from just from what I've read), but you would drive me crazy if I knew you personally. 
