New NYT "36 hours in..." feature on Pittsburgh

[sparrowmint]

Originally Posted by Merge

That's probably fine for the vast majority of folks living in Sharpsburg. I don't think there's any great desire to have the place flooded with new residents.

Quite possible. But the manufactured elitist attitudes are still baseless and ridiculous.

[Merge]

Originally Posted by sparrowmint

Quite possible. But the manufactured elitist attitudes are still baseless and ridiculous.

I definitely agree with that. That's probably my only real complaint about how Lawrenceville has developed. It used to be difficult to find overtly pretentious people in Pittsburgh (outside of maybe Shadyside). There were usually people around to gently put those folks in their place. Nowadays people are brazen and defiant in their pretension, and they get really whiny if you confront them about it.

[Mr.BadGuy]

Originally Posted by Merge

It seems to me that as long as I've been here in the Burgh (going on 30 years), there has always been a certain resentment of newcomers coming into the city and changing the culture. It's almost as if that resentment lies in the fact that the transplants didn't have to suffer through the bad times in the 70's and 80's, and thus have no place trying to set new cultural standards.

This is very important. Of the cities I've called home, I can't think of one that didn't suffer to some degree from the start of white flight to the end of the crack cocaine years. The era you mention was uniquely hard on urban America. Our cities lost tons of skilled and semiskilled jobs, putting mostly blue-collar working-class men out of work. Some were never employed again (as an ex-tradesman on the verge of turning 40, I worry that I'll join them sooner than later). The populations shifted from middle/working-class to working poor and desperately poor, which was exacerbated by jobs leaving the city for surrounding suburbs. Add in the arson for fun and insurance profit, stripping of vehicles for drug money (scrap), stagflation, slashed budgets and city staff and more, well you have a recipe for massive devastation.

Today these newcomers have their first taste of urban living in an era where cities are bouncing back and becoming flush with money in many cases. With no basis for comparison it could be that the amount of money and effort local people poured into these cities' comeback may be unthinkable to them.

Originally Posted by Merge

I think there's a similar thing happening with what locals view as "hipsters". It's like the age old-conflict between out-of-state-students and "townies" in college towns. Old school Pittsburgh didn't tolerate what they perceived as the sanctimony of those bringing in their "new and better" ideas. They were understandably suspicious and insecure, given their collective experience at Ground Zero of the demise of American industry.

Certainly, and that's a great point. The hipster today could be yesterday's punk or goth or art school kids. Complaining about newcomers isn't a new thing and cities get very crowded when the busloads of college kids arrive in a city alone for the first time. But they can't contextualize the current city against its history. They may be the newcomers with the new ideas but they missed some older eras that were equally great (greater, in my eyes, when it comes to Oakland). The nights spent partying on forbes and in the strip were some of the best times of my life. My one regret is I wish there'd been more of them. The 90s there had its own artistic vibe I can't adequately describe, very different from microbrew places and Salt restaurant, but in a way more fitting of that place and time. The old Oakland had special qualities that got lost when it became an extension of Pitt/UPMC campus. I guess I'm lucky to know the people who captured it for posterity on tape and camera. It's all we have left along with memories.

Originally Posted by Merge

Nowadays they really don't appreciate the condescension of these new arrivals characterizing them as "yinzers", especially as they find themselves slipping from what was once a respectfully middle class urban existence into the growing underclass, or feeling a need to escape the city into the suburbs.

By explaining this perspective, my intention is not to defend it. I'm actually kind of conflicted about it. I just think that a lot of self-appointed social critics here lack the empathy to understand this dynamic, and have no real desire to change their opinions or gain any insight into the situation. Their dismissive posture just seems to exacerbate the reactionary mentality of those proponents of "Old School Pittsburgh".

When you move to a new place, it's considered respectful to adapt to it instead of demanding it adapt to you. At last that's how I was taught. I don't know that people approach it like that anymore. That could be part of the conflict. Around 2010 if memory serves, I got piled on by a sophomore chick with an axe to grind who felt that me saying "I miss this nightclub and venue" was an attack on her generation and her beloved IGA with its rows of dorm ready snacks. But missing a place and remembering a great time doesn't warrant snotty lecture about groceries being here to stay and an old man stuck in the past like me can get over it or go away.

If you move to a place that isnt your home and strut like you own it, well, you may be in for a hard time. That's how it used to be but maybe that isnt true anymore. I think calling people a Yinzer is hurtful in any case. The natives of cities help make them special regardless of where. Anyway enough for today. Thanks for this discussion. It is very thought provoking.

[Merge]

Originally Posted by Mr.BadGuy

Today these newcomers have their first taste of urban living in an era where cities are bouncing back and becoming flush with money in many cases. With no basis for comparison it could be that the amount of money and effort local people poured into these cities' comeback may be unthinkable to them.

But they can't contextualize the current city against its history. They may be the newcomers with the new ideas but they missed some older eras that were equally great (greater, in my eyes, when it comes to Oakland). The nights spent partying on forbes and in the strip were some of the best times of my life. My one regret is I wish there'd been more of them. The 90s there had its own artistic vibe I can't adequately describe, very different from microbrew places and Salt restaurant, but in a way more fitting of that place and time. The old Oakland had special qualities that got lost when it became an extension of Pitt/UPMC campus. I guess I'm lucky to know the people who captured it for posterity on tape and camera. It's all we have left along with memories.



When you move to a new place, it's considered respectful to adapt to it instead of demanding it adapt to you. At last that's how I was taught. I don't know that people approach it like that anymore. That could be part of the conflict. Around 2010 if memory serves, I got piled on by a sophomore chick with an axe to grind who felt that me saying "I miss this nightclub and venue" was an attack on her generation and her beloved IGA with its rows of dorm ready snacks. But missing a place and remembering a great time doesn't warrant snotty lecture about groceries being here to stay and an old man stuck in the past like me can get over it or go away.

If you move to a place that isnt your home and strut like you own it, well, you may be in for a hard time. That's how it used to be but maybe that isnt true anymore. I think calling people a Yinzer is hurtful in any case. The natives of cities help make them special regardless of where. Anyway enough for today. Thanks for this discussion. It is very thought provoking.

Lots of great points in this well-considered response, and naturally I agree with the vast majority of the post.

It's pretty interesting to hear about the kid that wouldn't let you miss the Upstage/Lag/Attic complex. Boy, did I spend a lot of money in that building over the years (and that's especially significant because I spent much of it in quarter increments. Things sure do change.

[Salmonburgher]

Originally Posted by Mr.BadGuy

I think calling people a Yinzer is hurtful in any case.

Really? Although gone for many years, I still refer to myself as a "Yinzer".

[Merge]

Originally Posted by Salmonburgher

Really? Although gone for many years, I still refer to myself as a "Yinzer".

Apparently a lot of folks mainly use the term as a pejorative... especially here on City Data.

[Salmonburgher]

Originally Posted by Merge

Apparently a lot of folks mainly use the term as a pejorative... especially here on City Data.

Hmm... Seems odd considering how many items, such as T shirts and bumper stickers make reference to the word "Yinz".

[Mr.BadGuy]

Merge got it. I am referring to it being used as an epithet, shorthand for a middle-aged, usually lower-income or working poor person native to the area who serves as punching bag for the region's ills. Sure, working poor, middle-aged white men without college degrees do have certain privileges over other groups who function as punching bags way more often (women, people of color, LGBT community, devout persons of faiths outside Christianity, immigrants, etc.)...as one myself, that's not a question. But they do not have the power to influence an entire region, even if they're seen as the cause of its ills.

When my job went away, I left the area. My 2 options at that time were: #1) a new city, a temporary gig, and finally, a go at a much bigger and more diverse job market when the gig is up and hope I'm lucky, or #2) stay in the area (not East End though — got priced out) and drive a rusted-out beater to a series of semi-skilled labor jobs far from bus lines paying $12-14 max. I got to pick #1 because I have the privilege of a wife who is capable of earning a big paycheck in the software sector, so long as the company hires women at higher levels, and has skills that are lucrative and in demand, as well as strong roots that come with being a native, in City #1. Choice #2 is all some of those poor, aging guys from the area have, especially if their credit is trashed, their family responsibilities make it near impossible to schedule classes, or they live way outside the city because it's what they can afford, and don't have the budget for the gas, parking, and books.

To a person with more options, including youth, it may be odd to picture being at or nearly halfway through life, financially and educationally behind (because you started poor), and facing quickly narrowing opportunities, to where each choice you make requires a major sacrifice that works like the 1st domino in a series being pushed over and knocking down the rest. I have been sh-t poor as an adult, since I was born into a poor family, and headed out into the world at 18 already saddled with the costs my family bore for that. My middle-class wife and friends did not share that experience. Poor as in, had the shirt on my back and maybe a roof over my head if I got lucky that day and picked up some day labor or someone with something to trade. Class and income is a huge factor in how your life turns out, and the poorer you are, the less power you have, and the less power you get. Many poor people, of all races and creeds and etc. don't even vote, they feel that disconnected from society, and that marginalized.