jogging through Hill District (Wilkinsburg, Bedford: fit in, section 8, crimes)

[norcider]

Yeah, the Hill is the magical portal to all places. Bloomfield to South Side in minutes. Town to Oakland in minutes.

[Uptown kid]

Just avoid Skyline Terrace, Bedford Hills @ Whiteside, Chauncey Drive/Bedford Ave & such especially after dark.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by Uptown kid

Just avoid Skyline Terrace, Bedford Hills @ Whiteside, Chauncey Drive/Bedford Ave & such especially after dark.

This is the guy that knows.

[tyovan4]

I'm white and frequently park my car in the Hill for the day and walk to my office downtown. I've seen some sketchy people and definitely some blight, but I've never felt endangered or threatened.

[SteelCityRising]

I'm routinely in the Hill District and never feel unsafe. One time my car was vandalized while parked along Centre Avenue just east of Herron, when I'd park there for free (before the meters were installed) and then walk down to work at Presby. The damage was minor---my plastic sun visor on the passenger side was cracked off, and there were marks on my passenger side window as if someone tried briefly to break in and then gave up---so I didn't report it. The Hill District has a great library and YMCA.

[Uptown kid]

Chauncey Drive is the roughest spot on the Hill and its the last if its tier. Oakhill @ Burrow St, Skyline Terrace, & Bedford Hills @Whiteside Rd/Memory Lane, all have saftey issues, but are nowhere as bad as before. The Hill from Davenport Way to Herron can be seedy on foot after dark: especially side streets in between Wylie-Centre, Wylie-Webster & even more between Webster-Bedford.
There used to be '2400'Chauncey Drive Projects + 'DownBottom'Francis St Projects (Bedford Dwellings); Bentley Drive Projects'the Badlandz Projects + Elmore Square'G Block' Projects (Addison Terrace); WeedSide'Whiteside Road + Burrows St [the Racknolia-Long Island] + Rob'it'son'Robinson Court/the Mad Circle'Terrace St/Warren Court (Allequppia Terrace) & Reed Roberts Manor (Reed Rude-Lost City Projects).

Plus back then 1600-2700 Bedford Ave, Middle Hill, the De Raud St area & much of Lower Hill were way worse off by themselves excluding the projects.
Streets like La Place St, Reed St, Centre Ave, Perry, Erin, Kirkpatrick, 25-2900 Webster, Wylie, Roberts, Helman, Lombard, Dinwiddie, were all FAR more dope active than they are today.
Due to: Lower Hill's partial gentrification, (slower) central Hill District revalization, and demolition of outer hilltop public housing communites + as the crack epidemic subsided, and heroin keeps both the dealers & users inside... the Hill's gotten physically quieter... Though thats in terms of drug violence, inter-personal disputes, robberies, random crime etc. Gang violence however, is present in this current new generation of gang members like the early 90's.
Certain blocks of 5th Ave, Sugar Top [mainly 3200 Webster & Camp St] & West Oakland past Oakhill were worse then too. As the Hill gets better hopefully so will the places above.

Sugar Top is turning more ghetto very quickly. Since the late 80's-early 90's due to its proximity to the Hill there's always been a local gang & spill over from the project gangs/side streets drug syndicates... For a while its overall been a questionable place to willingly move into with adolescent boys of any race to raise.
Once Francis Street/White Side Rd closed some of the gang members who didn't relocate to Chauncey Dr (many folks moved to Swissvale, Allentown, Elliott, Allegheny Commons East, Penn Hills, etc to a lesser extant folks moved to Terrace Village & Middle Hill) moved to Sugar Top Mob. A lot of the old, middle class legacy familes are gone either of old age or moved out. More Middle Hill's spilling over.
Sure Edwart St, Schenley Farms, Centre/Avalon/Brackenridge, Finland St & Sugar Top north of the park, are still stable...but in 5yrs most blocks of streets like: Cherokee, Byrn Mawr, Milwaukee, Anaheim, Clarrisa, Andelaide, Shawnee, Iowa, Dakota, etc will certainly be rougher. McNeil, 3200-3350 Webster, Landis, Vancroft, 3200 Camp St, etc are currently rough and declining.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by Uptown kid

Sugar Top is turning more ghetto very quickly. Since the late 80's-early 90's due to its proximity to the Hill there's always been a local gang & spill over from the project gangs/side streets drug syndicates... For a while its overall been a questionable place to willingly move into with adolescent boys of any race to raise.
Once Francis Street/White Side Rd closed some of the gang members who didn't relocate to Chauncey Dr (many folks moved to Swissvale, Allentown, Elliott, Allegheny Commons East, Penn Hills, etc to a lesser extant folks moved to Terrace Village & Middle Hill) moved to Sugar Top Mob. A lot of the old, middle class legacy familes are gone either of old age or moved out. More Middle Hill's spilling over.
Sure Edwart St, Schenley Farms, Centre/Avalon/Brackenridge, Finland St & Sugar Top north of the park, are still stable...but in 5yrs most blocks of streets like: Cherokee, Byrn Mawr, Milwaukee, Anaheim, Clarrisa, Andelaide, Shawnee, Iowa, Dakota, etc will certainly be rougher. McNeil, 3200-3350 Webster, Landis, Vancroft, 3200 Camp St, etc are currently rough and declining.

That seems like its largely the result of project closings and gentrification elsewhere. you can eliminate low rent properties and replace them with expensive condos, but the people that were living in the low rent digs are still around.

[SteelCityRising]

Sad to hear that you believe Sugar Top will be declining in the coming years. It was a neighborhood I was considering for a home. I always thought the pressure from Oakland would just continue to push more Pitt students and UPMC types up and over Centre Avenue and into Sugar Top in the coming years.

[PIT2MAD]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Sad to hear that you believe Sugar Top will be declining in the coming years. It was a neighborhood I was considering for a home. I always thought the pressure from Oakland would just continue to push more Pitt students and UPMC types up and over Centre Avenue and into Sugar Top in the coming years.

One of the biggest reasons Sugar Top may never see such an influx of Oakland people is the psychological divide created by the topography and Schenley Farms. Aside from the far upper reaches of Pitt's campus, it really isn't easy to walk or ride a bike to Oakland. Even the 81/83 buses don't make it to the heart of Oakland and it's like a 10 minute ride from Sugar Top to Montefiore despite how incredibly close they are as the crow flies. Even catching a bus to downtown is no quick feat on many of the streets.

Obviously the bigger factor is the association it has with the rest of the neighborhood, but Uptown also has a bad rap but i fully expect we will see it transform drastically in our lifetime. Sugar Top is just too inconveniently located as far as good connections go. Polish Hill is thriving because it holds a certain charm, Sugar Top just feels like the dead end to the ghetto which is pretty much what it is.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by PIT2MAD

One of the biggest reasons Sugar Top may never see such an influx of Oakland people is the psychological divide created by the topography and Schenley Farms. Aside from the far upper reaches of Pitt's campus, it really isn't easy to walk or ride a bike to Oakland. Even the 81/83 buses don't make it to the heart of Oakland and it's like a 10 minute ride from Sugar Top to Montefiore despite how incredibly close they are as the crow flies. Even catching a bus to downtown is no quick feat on many of the streets.

Obviously the bigger factor is the association it has with the rest of the neighborhood, but Uptown also has a bad rap but i fully expect we will see it transform drastically in our lifetime. Sugar Top is just too inconveniently located as far as good connections go. Polish Hill is thriving because it holds a certain charm, Sugar Top just feels like the dead end to the ghetto which is pretty much what it is.

Again, it's worth noting that the Upper Hill has been getting whiter in recent years, not blacker. In 2000 the neighborhood was 87% black. By 2010 it was only 77% black. The black population declined by 18%, while the white population grew 62%. That seems like gentrification to me.

I do have to say, I am not sure when Schenley Gardens rehab center on Bigelow Boulevard opened. Technically it is in Sugar Top, and this could account for some of the influx of white residents. But from 2000 to 2010 the percentage of the population over age 65 only rose by a few percent (and fell in absolute numbers) so it's likely that nursing home was there for awhile, and was not contributing substantially to the "whitening" of the neighborhood.

Streets like Anderson Terrace, and to a lesser extent Dakota Street, have been semi-annexed by Schenley Heights over time. The backwoodsy areas near Polish Hill (Monroe, Blessing, etc) are also increasingly desirable. As UptownKid noted, the areas around Centre are fine as well - although streets like Avalon and Brackenridge are technically considered to be in Terrace Village by the city. On the other hand, it's pretty clear just driving around the neighborhood that streets like Webster and Milwaukee are pretty blighted now - almost as bad as parts of the Middle Hill. And the City has basically said it's only going to redevelop the Hill from the bottom up, meaning Sugar Top isn't going to get any infill in decades, if ever.

To me the key question is if the core of the neighborhood - streets like Anaheim, Cherokee, and Clarissa, can be turned around. If they can, the neighborhood as a whole can thrive. It's a shame there is not even a hint of a neighborhood business district left here, as the presence would make a big difference.