Neighborhood of the week: Mt. Washington (Pittsburgh, Shiloh: top neighborhoods, sales, 2014)

[eschaton]

Mt. Washington is an inner ring city neighborhood, located a stones throw from Downtown across the Monongahela River. However due to the 367-foot elevation difference between the crest of Mount Washington and the "South Shore" area by the riverbank (which now houses Station Square) it has always been in some senses more isolated from Downtown than areas three times further away.

In the early history of Pittsburgh, Mount Washington had a different name - Coal Hill. The entire southern hilltop area was originally a giant coal seam, initially so easy to mine that you could just lift chunks of coal out of the ground and throw them downhill. At one point Coal Hill was the most valuable coal deposit in the country, with 13 million tons (20% of the national total) extracted by the 1870s. Other mining took place on the mount as well, including sandstone which was used for the second Allegheny County Courthouse.

The expansion of industry in Pittsburgh in the 1870s meant that much of the flat lands by the river, which were already densely populated, were getting converted over to industrial uses. In order to deal with the tremendous demand for new worker housing, Pittsburgh needed to look up, and one of the places it looked up was Coal Hill. In 1870 the Monongahela Incline was built/ In 1872 Pittsburgh annexed the area. In 1876 the area was officially named Mount Washington. A year later the Duquense Incline was also constructed. A third, now defunct incline would follow in the 1890s. These inclines helped set off the first building boom in the neighborhood. As with other hilltop neighborhoods in the city, the 19th century housing stock was heavily frame, with essentially no rowhouses. Starting in the 1890s, and particularly in the early 20th century, brick houses began being built on Mt. Washington as well, likely due to a combination of easier transportation of brick loads, along with brick changing from a structural material to a facade which was laid on top of a frame core.

One of the most notable cases of this is Chatham Village near the back end of Mount Washington. Originally built as low-income housing in the 1930s, it's a well-preserved example of the Garden City Movement Movement of the time period, and quickly went upscale due to its attractiveness despite the small size of the units. In some ways Chatham Village looks less remarkable today, because so many of its characteristics (gently curving roads, integral garages, meticulous landscaping) became commonplace in suburban townhouses in the modern era, but it was truly a groundbreaking design at the time.

During the early 20th century, there was a considerable civic movement to "clean up" Mt. Washington. The coal seams had been largely mined out, and at its worst, the entire hill had been stripped of trees and most vegetation. This meant the hillside was rapidly eroding away, and there was constant threat of landslides and subsidence. Although realization of this dream ultimately took decades, the neighborhood is now surrounded by dense forest on all of its hillsides, rather than the ugly rubble piles of a century ago.

Today Mount Washington remains largely residential "suburb in the city" despite its closeness to Downtown. It is, however, a large neighborhood geographically, with huge variances in desirability. Areas directly on Grandview with...well...grand views...sell for millions of dollars, while there are areas on the "back end" of the Mount which are sketchy to downright dangerous where you can still buy houses for under $100,000. Oddly (at least to me) there is really not much correlation between housing stock, walkability, and price.

Mount Washington has one small, yet complete business district which is focused around Shiloh Street. This area has everything you would desire in terms of walkable amenities, from bars and restaurants to a coffee shop, grocery store, banks, wine & spirits, gym, post office, etc. Years back when we were considering moving to Mt. Washington we tried very hard to find a house within a few blocks of this area, but it's all but impossible, because most of the homes have been subdivided and are rented out (often to Duquense students). There are also several other "incomplete" business districts, including Virginia Avenue, Bailey Avenue, and Boggs Avenue. None of these have a wide selection of businesses, but they have mixed commercial amenities interspersed on largely residential streets.

As to the future of Mount Washington, it's hard to come up with a concrete conclusion because of how large it is. While it's never been a "hip" area, much of it has always been stable and middle to upper-middle class, and it's one of the portions of the city where new-construction infill is still a pretty routine thing. Some sections of the "back end" - like the area east of Ruth - looked like they were going in the direction of the Southern Hilltop as a whole, but seem to have stabilized in recent years. Other areas, like the far southern segment, seem to still be getting worse. As an area with a significant working-class white population, drugs (particularly opiates) remain a problem, and there is a fair amount of petty crime related to drug addicts. I do think it's safe to say although some areas are continuing to rise, and other areas are declining, nothing is happening in the neighborhood currently at a particularly rapid rate, and we should expect in another decade or two it will be essentially the same as it is today - a neighborhood of mostly single-family homes and some commercial vitality.

[norcider]

Great timing, was up there for a night out with my wife this past weekend. We visited Love Pittsburgh, the Summit bar and stopped by Bigham Tavern for some late night eats. Mount Washington has come a long way and I have a feeling it will be another one of those hot hoods if it isn't already.

[sky329]

Somewhat accurate, but about 2-3 years dated depiction of Mt. Washington... On these boards Mt Wash does not get the respect it deserves. It is the most known and most historic neighborhood in the city... Anytime they show Pittsburgh it is from this area and when tourists come here it is the main attraction of the entire city.. The front side which is closest to Grandview is the most desirable and expensive offering walkability to many of the amenities.. This area includes anything north of Virginia ave from woodruff street up to Wyoming... These houses go for more and hardly ever pop up on mls...
One thing that surprises people is actually not many homes here have a actual view unless you are in a condo..
The second most desirable area is Duquesne heights section which is west of the neighborhood.. It is very suburban with nice big lots grass and driveways.. a lot of newer construction homes and also is the location of restaurant row with altius, Monterey bay, lemont etc.. not as much rentals here but some of the back streets even feel straight up suburban and not walkable to Shiloh. Bigham tavern also is in this area.
The third area is actually the heart of mt Washington... It is the corridor of boggs and southern with Virginia ave being the boundary.. This area is rapidly developing and tons of houses being flipped. Very hard to find properties here for less than 100k that are livable and don't have major issues such as massive retaining walls failing etc.. Nothing ever hits the mls and landlords hoard these houses because rent has become high to stay here.. This area has some high points with small city views. Violence in thus area is declining and is much safer than the bailey/beltzhoover/warrington section I will discuss last. Tons of hills in this area to can make winter bad.. The property values in this section have nearly doubled since 2014.. if you don't believe me look at sales prices. This is a upcoming area which actually has investors crawling around buying up everything in site.. Shiloh street is actually located in this area and is walkable.. New bar/lounge being built on virgina ave across from the new gas station owned by carson city saloon. IMO Mt Wash has been the second most hip in this city history second behind south side.. People say the east end but that's a relatively new proposition. Lawrenceville was highly unfashionable as near as 2008, but at that time mt Washington has been stable the whole time..
Last area is the bailey/beltzhoover/warrington section which is the least desirable unless you are on bailey or kambach or at the top of beltzhoover.. This is the only area that I would consider dangerous.. But there has been a considerable amount of investment in this area on winton st, Kathleen, and Craighead which aleasy shocks me that people are willing to buy houses this close to warrington...https://www.redfin.com/PA/Pittsburgh.../home/73543694 that's a prime example of what's going on back there which is pretty impressive..


I see nothing but up in the future of this neighborhood.. Stable but slowly improving with property values rising.. Lets just let that darn hotel get built and its taken off!


PS: summit has the best old fashioned you will ever have

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by sky329

It is the most known and most historic neighborhood in the city.

The first is debatable. The second is demonstrably false. I don't often see 19th century homes in Mt. Washington which haven't been remuddled to hell and back. The nice homes I see are mostly early 20th century ones. This is a gem, for example - even though it's not in the nicest part of the neighborhood. Houses like this are pretty rare though.

Originally Posted by sky329

The front side which is closest to Grandview is the most desirable and expensive offering walkability to many of the amenities.. This area includes anything north of Virginia ave from woodruff street up to Wyoming... These houses go for more and hardly ever pop up on mls...

I checked the property records on Zillow, and it seems like there's a huge price range in terms of sales in this area. Lots of houses in between $100,000 and $250,000, with some much higher, and much lower.

Originally Posted by sky329

One thing that surprises people is actually not many homes here have a actual view unless you are in a condo..

Yeah, the view corridors are not great in most areas. A lot of streets have a nice, albeit not as stunning, view down the back side of the hill however.

Originally Posted by sky329

The second most desirable area is Duquesne heights section which is west of the neighborhood.. It is very suburban with nice big lots grass and driveways.. a lot of newer construction homes and also is the location of restaurant row with altius, Monterey bay, lemont etc.. not as much rentals here but some of the back streets even feel straight up suburban and not walkable to Shiloh. Bigham tavern also is in this area.

Although there's little practical difference between Mt. Washington and Duquense Heights, I covered the latter earlier, and didn't want to repeat myself. One reason I didn't discuss the Grandview commercial corridor, for example, is because it's almost entirely within Duquense Heights. In Mount Washington proper Grandview is almost entirely residential.

Originally Posted by sky329

The third area is actually the heart of mt Washington... It is the corridor of boggs and southern with Virginia ave being the boundary.. This area is rapidly developing and tons of houses being flipped. Very hard to find properties here for less than 100k that are livable and don't have major issues such as massive retaining walls failing etc.. Nothing ever hits the mls and landlords hoard these houses because rent has become high to stay here.. This area has some high points with small city views. Violence in this area is declining and is much safer than the bailey/beltzhoover/warrington section I will discuss last. Tons of hills in this area to can make winter bad.. The property values in this section have nearly doubled since 2014.. if you don't believe me look at sales prices. This is a upcoming area which actually has investors crawling around buying up everything in site.. Shiloh street is actually located in this area and is walkable.. New bar/lounge being built on virgina ave across from the new gas station owned by carson city saloon. IMO Mt Wash has been the second most hip in this city history second behind south side.. People say the east end but that's a relatively new proposition. Lawrenceville was highly unfashionable as near as 2008, but at that time mt Washington has been stable the whole time..

This area is a long corridor. As I said, my impression (from other people who are on Mount Washington) was the further south portions of this area aren't really doing well right now, except for the areas right around South Hills Junction and the South Busway due to transit convenience.

Originally Posted by sky329

Last area is the bailey/beltzhoover/warrington section which is the least desirable unless you are on bailey or kambach or at the top of beltzhoover.. This is the only area that I would consider dangerous.. But there has been a considerable amount of investment in this area on winton st, Kathleen, and Craighead which aleasy shocks me that people are willing to buy houses this close to warrington...https://www.redfin.com/PA/Pittsburgh.../home/73543694 that's a prime example of what's going on back there which is pretty impressive..

It's a shame, because this area has the best housing stock by far, with lots of big brick houses similar to the East End. Edgemont might be my favorite street in terms of built environment in Mount Washington.

Originally Posted by sky329

I see nothing but up in the future of this neighborhood.. Stable but slowly improving with property values rising.. Lets just let that darn hotel get built and its taken off!

Any homeowner occupied area changes only slowly. From what I know from friends on Mt. Washington, NIMBYs are a big issue up there - people really don't want to have more residential development. It's a shame, because if you added more density in the core of the neighborhood, you'd have more pedestrians, which in turn would mean more customers for the shops and a healthier business district. I mean, I don't think the outlook is negative either way, but being so close to Downtown, Mt. Washington could be so much more than it currently is.

[sky329]

Originally Posted by eschaton

The first is debatable. The second is demonstrably false. I don't often see 19th century homes in Mt. Washington which haven't been remuddled to hell and back. The nice homes I see are mostly early 20th century ones. This is a gem, for example - even though it's not in the nicest part of the neighborhood. Houses like this are pretty rare though. .

I meant actual history not housing.. like George Washington looking down at the point etc.. more history here than anywhere.. name an area.. the city shut down to build the redoubts.. (albeit in other neighborhoods as well) but the main focus was here

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by sky329

I meant actual history not housing.. like George Washington looking down at the point etc.. more history here than anywhere.. name an area.. the city shut down to build the redoubts.. (albeit in other neighborhoods as well) but the main focus was here

Neighborhood pride is a great thing, but I think you're mistaken. As I noted, prior to around 1870 there really wasn't a Mount Washington to speak of, there was a largely rural neighborhood with a ton of coal mines. By that time period the city already had a vibrant urban core - Downtown, Uptown, the Hill District, the Strip District, Lawrenceville, and the lower North Side.

[PghYinzer]

There is also no evidence that George Washington and Guyasuta ever met there, even though there is a statue of it happening. From an article detailing the statue...


The parklet is being renamed "Point of View Park" by City Council proclamation. Although the two men were not known to have met there, the site affords a view of the place where they did meet -- somewhere near the confluence of the Monongahela and Allegheny rivers.

History is spread around the city for sure, so it's hard to claim one area as the most historic. However, outside of Point State Park, I would vote Lawrenceville as one of the most historic areas of the city due to the Arsenal and also it is where George Washington fell out of his boat into the icy Allegheny and swam to shore.

[sky329]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Neighborhood pride is a great thing, but I think you're mistaken. As I noted, prior to around 1870 there really wasn't a Mount Washington to speak of, there was a largely rural neighborhood with a ton of coal mines. By that time period the city already had a vibrant urban core - Downtown, Uptown, the Hill District, the Strip District, Lawrenceville, and the lower North Side.

don't have pride im from penn hills.. I think we are talking about different history.. im going way further back


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[Copanut]

Can you believe that sprawl they created that took away all the green areas on Mt. Washington?

[RogersParkTransplant]

One more time. Just because they put the statue there doesn't mean the meeting actually happened there. Art can be misleading like that.