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If it was me I would buy a house in the Central Northside; you can get a great house at that price and we are having a wonderful experience with Pittsburgh Public Schools. But if you don't want PPS then yes, Aspinwall is a good choice, and you can extend that to include Millvale, parts of Reserve, and Sharpsburg. The bus commute is doable from these spots depending on where exactly you live; for what it's worth I take the bus from the North side to Pitt for work, and I have been happy with that choice.
Thanks for this. How to do you feel about the safety of the North Side? Could you elaborate a little bit more about PPS?
It starts to get more tricky with "good schools" in Oakland. It is entirely dependent on OPs desires at that point. At least it is easier to objectively say the neighborhood schools in the Colfax/Allderdice feeder pattern compare well to the better suburban districts. Outside of that in city limits, and you start to run into a different discussion on how to measure performance, the role of active parenting, etc. That conversation tends to devolve pretty quickly, so I was offering neighborhoods which might meet the bill without resorting to discussion on what constitutes "good schools".
That said, any city school may be outside of the OPs criteria. In which case, I agree with eschaton regarding Aspinwall. For $400k, you get some walkable amenities, decent commute for both, and "good school district". It seems like a no-brainer to me.
I'm not sure how to figure out which school would go with this address? The house does look nice though. Perhaps I should've mentioned earlier - ideally we would like 3+ bedrooms
None of Oakland is in the desirable Colfax feeder. Ironically the rich areas of Oakland dominated by families like Schenley Farms are zoned for Hill District schools. The student slum parts of Oakland, in contrast, go to Greenfield K-8, which is a perfectly acceptable elementary/middle school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by _steelers2018
From what I was seeing, it seemed a little too expensive. And maybe it's an outdated view, but I am a little nervous about PPS. Even Colfax and Allderdice seem to be "average" school districts for PA. My definition of a good school district is an above average school district. But I'll definitely take a closer look, thank you. Do you have experience with those schools in particular? To me, small backyard means maybe around 500 square feet?
If you're talking about PSSA test scores, literally the only difference between Colfax K-8 and say Fox Chapel area schools is that around a quarter of the Colfax student body is black. Given the historic disparities in test scores, this drives down the average of Colfax. If you just compare how white students do at Colfax to white students in the Fox Chapel area, there is no difference at all.
As for Allderdice, it's still perfectly acceptable as a High School, IMHO, but it has a bit of a "brain drain" because a lot of the parents of Colfax students decide to send their kids to CAPA or Sci-Tech at 6th or 9th grade.
FWIW, my daughter is enrolled in public schools here in Pittsburgh at Linden K-5, a magnet in the East End. I'm white, but between 2/3rds and 3/4ths of the school is now black. It hasn't hurt her education one bit so far. Sometimes she ends up with one kid in the class who causes disciplinary problems, but even that hasn't been the case this year.
None of Oakland is in the desirable Colfax feeder. Ironically the rich areas of Oakland dominated by families like Schenley Farms are zoned for Hill District schools. The student slum parts of Oakland, in contrast, go to Greenfield K-8, which is a perfectly acceptable elementary/middle school.
If you're talking about PSSA test scores, literally the only difference between Colfax K-8 and say Fox Chapel area schools is that around a quarter of the Colfax student body is black. Given the historic disparities in test scores, this drives down the average of Colfax. If you just compare how white students do at Colfax to white students in the Fox Chapel area, there is no difference at all.
As for Allderdice, it's still perfectly acceptable as a High School, IMHO, but it has a bit of a "brain drain" because a lot of the parents of Colfax students decide to send their kids to CAPA or Sci-Tech at 6th or 9th grade.
FWIW, my daughter is enrolled in public schools here in Pittsburgh at Linden K-5, a magnet in the East End. I'm white, but between 2/3rds and 3/4ths of the school is now black. It hasn't hurt her education one bit so far. Sometimes she ends up with one kid in the class who causes disciplinary problems, but even that hasn't been the case this year.
That's funny - I assume these Schenley Farm families are sending their kids to private school? Thanks for elaborating on the test score gap - I only glanced at the test score rankings, which are not great, especially compared to Fox Chapel. How do you feel about the magnet school process?
That's funny - I assume these Schenley Farm families are sending their kids to private school? Thanks for elaborating on the test score gap - I only glanced at the test score rankings, which are not great, especially compared to Fox Chapel. How do you feel about the magnet school process?
Yeah, I presume people in Schenley Farms send their kids to private schools, or in some cases utilize the magnet program.
As for my personal experience with the magnet process, it has been fine. We applied to three schools, and we got into our second choice (Dilworth was our first).
One thing I didn't understand until we enrolled in Linden is the dynamic with it having language programs in both German and Mandarin. Historically, it was all German, with the Mandarin program added later. We applied to the Mandarin side both because we thought it would be a more useful language for our daughter to learn and because statistics from the Pittsburgh Post Gazette suggested it was much easier to get into. But it turns out that there is substantial racial segregation in the school by language program, with most of the white kids in German. Presumably this is due to a combination of the German program being older (meaning parents use sibling preference to get a guaranteed slot) along with people with German ethnic background selecting it. But it's created an odd dynamic, because while the school as a whole is integrated, the classes aren't so much, with my daughter usually one of only 2-3 white kids in her class each year. The "German side" of the school is also disproportionately kids in the gifted program, while very few are on the Mandarin side. There's also the odd dynamic that virtually all the parents involved in the PTA are white even though the school as a whole isn't.
Even given all of that though, our daughter - who is now in third grade - has enjoyed her schooling. She's generally the best student in her class each year. This year she's really taken off in terms of reading - she's been reading the entire Harry Potter series, finishing one of the 400-page books in only a week. Her math skills are great as well. For a long time she was resistant to taking the gifted test because she didn't get along with some of the girls who are in it in her school, but she wants to be challenged more and is now starting the process. And as I said before, in terms of discipline issues, the school is fine. Sometimes she has had issues with a single disruptive kid in her class - this year the kid in question was bounced back to his neighborhood school. The first few years she was there some parents with kids in the upper grades complained about a principal taking a light touch to issues of fighting in the upper grades, but the principal in question was fired two years ago and the new one has righted the ship.
That said, we are not 100% sure if our son (who is four, and will start Kindergarten in another year and a half) will go to Linden. My wife works in the Strip, and isn't sure she wants to sign up for another five years of driving all the way to Point Breeze and back every day. We'll still have Linden on the list, but might try to get our son into Montessori or Dilworth instead.
Yeah, I presume people in Schenley Farms send their kids to private schools, or in some cases utilize the magnet program.
As for my personal experience with the magnet process, it has been fine. We applied to three schools, and we got into our second choice (Dilworth was our first).
One thing I didn't understand until we enrolled in Linden is the dynamic with it having language programs in both German and Mandarin. Historically, it was all German, with the Mandarin program added later. We applied to the Mandarin side both because we thought it would be a more useful language for our daughter to learn and because statistics from the Pittsburgh Post Gazette suggested it was much easier to get into. But it turns out that there is substantial racial segregation in the school by language program, with most of the white kids in German. Presumably this is due to a combination of the German program being older (meaning parents use sibling preference to get a guaranteed slot) along with people with German ethnic background selecting it. But it's created an odd dynamic, because while the school as a whole is integrated, the classes aren't so much, with my daughter usually one of only 2-3 white kids in her class each year. The "German side" of the school is also disproportionately kids in the gifted program, while very few are on the Mandarin side. There's also the odd dynamic that virtually all the parents involved in the PTA are white even though the school as a whole isn't.
Even given all of that though, our daughter - who is now in third grade - has enjoyed her schooling. She's generally the best student in her class each year. This year she's really taken off in terms of reading - she's been reading the entire Harry Potter series, finishing one of the 400-page books in only a week. Her math skills are great as well. For a long time she was resistant to taking the gifted test because she didn't get along with some of the girls who are in it in her school, but she wants to be challenged more and is now starting the process. And as I said before, in terms of discipline issues, the school is fine. Sometimes she has had issues with a single disruptive kid in her class - this year the kid in question was bounced back to his neighborhood school. The first few years she was there some parents with kids in the upper grades complained about a principal taking a light touch to issues of fighting in the upper grades, but the principal in question was fired two years ago and the new one has righted the ship.
That said, we are not 100% sure if our son (who is four, and will start Kindergarten in another year and a half) will go to Linden. My wife works in the Strip, and isn't sure she wants to sign up for another five years of driving all the way to Point Breeze and back every day. We'll still have Linden on the list, but might try to get our son into Montessori or Dilworth instead.
That's great to hear. Harry Potter is a classic. I'll definitely be taking a closer look at PPS. I think that I have a unfair view of them. At the same time, Fox Chapel looks like a great option as well. The only thing I worry is that Fox Chapel would be a little too snobby or wealthy for us. Our budget looks to be on the low end of what houses go for there.
That's great to hear. Harry Potter is a classic. I'll definitely be taking a closer look at PPS. I think that I have a unfair view of them. At the same time, Fox Chapel looks like a great option as well. The only thing I worry is that Fox Chapel would be a little too snobby or wealthy for us. Our budget looks to be on the low end of what houses go for there.
Our kids go to O'Hara Elementary School in the Fox Chapel Area School District. Aspinwall feeds there.
So, does Blawnox. Most of the students do not come from Fox Chapel. Honestly, most of the wealthy kids go to private schools. Another elementary school, Fairview has more kids from Fox Chapel. As the kids get older you also start losing some of the wealthier kids to Shadyside starting in Middle School.
Our kids go to O'Hara Elementary School in the Fox Chapel Area School District. Aspinwall feeds there.
So, does Blawnox. Most of the students do not come from Fox Chapel. Honestly, most of the wealthy kids go to private schools. Another elementary school, Fairview has more kids from Fox Chapel. As the kids get older you also start losing some of the wealthier kids to Shadyside starting in Middle School.
just for clarification, shadyside academy middle and high schools are in fox chapel. that probably confuses some people
Thanks for this. How to do you feel about the safety of the North Side? Could you elaborate a little bit more about PPS?
I consider the Northside to be a very safe area, but I have lived most of my adult life in large cities, so this may say as much about me as it does the Northside. Still for $400k you could buy in one of the best/wealthiest/safest locations, like the Mexican War Streets or Allegheny West, and I would consider that as safe as Oakland or Squirrel Hill. The area is also changing rapidly, and I suspect that the petty crime that does exist will go down in coming years due to gentrification.
Our kids go to Allegheny Traditional Academy, which was our first choice magnet, and it was fairly easy getting in. There are tons of young families, especially in the Mexican War Streets and Brighton Heights, who all send their kids to ATA, and the sense of community is very strong. There's a broad economic and racial mix, which is important to us. I generally tend to be on the same page as eschaton on this topic; all I can say is that we are really happy with how it's working out for our family so far, and I personally like the teachers and love that the principal is hands-on and knows most kids by name. I don't feel hugely comfortable saying a whole lot more on here, but send me a PM if you have more questions.
I can add a few thoughts about living in Fox Chapel with school age kids. Our kids are in middle and elementary school and we live in the borough. Growing up in rural Westmoreland County, I always thought Fox Chapel was the rich town where everyone was snooty.
Twenty years later, I find myself living here and it is not as all what I expected. I'm sure there are snobby people, but in general, I haven't come across them in the 5 years we've lived here. Most families in our neighborhood are professional people who make a good living but are not what I consider super wealthy. I've found people to be very nice, down to earth, and great neighbors who mind their own business. Many in my neighborhood have school age kids, and none that I personally know are planning to send their kids to private school. They feel, like my husband and I, that we live here and pay taxes in part because of the school district. There is no way I'm spending money for private school. We've lived in Washington DC, Baltimore, and Boston where property taxes were just as high without the benefit of a good school.
So far, I've been extremely happy with both Fairview elementary and the middle school. Both schools have my kids at the level of instruction that I think is appropriate for them and the transition from elementary to middle school was done very well by the district. There are some parents who are a little too pushy in my opinion, but I think that is endemic at most schools.
Just my two cents.
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