Pittsburrgh equivalents (Pittsburgh: school, train, vacation)

[Katarina Witt]

I find it hard to believe that there's no one living close enough to the station that they couldn't leave their house less than an hour before.

Well, you do have to allow some time to be there before the train arrives at the station. That is why I said about an hour for most people. I have done a lot of train, bus, and air travel. I know you can't just show up 5 min. before departure. When you look at the commute times people estimate for various suburbs to downtown Pgh, I think an hour is reasonable, considering you have to allow time to park, get your stuff, kids, etc out of the car and get into the station.

If you are relying on public transport to get to the station, you have to leave when the T, bus, whatever leaves, so you may well have to leave much earlier than if you are driving a car.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Well, you do have to allow some time to be there before the train arrives at the station. That is why I said about an hour for most people. I have done a lot of train, bus, and air travel. I know you can't just show up 5 min. before departure. When you look at the commute times people estimate for various suburbs to downtown Pgh, I think an hour is reasonable, considering you have to allow time to park, get your stuff, kids, etc out of the car and get into the station.

I usually arrive with about 10 min to spare...frequently less. Still, up to an hour is reasonable..not an hour plus.

Originally Posted by Katiana

If you are relying on public transport to get to the station, you have to leave when the T, bus, whatever leaves, so you may well have to leave much earlier than if you are driving a car.

sounds as if you have an inadequate public transit system. Admittedly, having a decent transit system is something I had forgotten that Pitt may not have, or at least that it doesn't support the station. which, in the short run makes sense, since there aren't many trains there (in contrast, Amtrak carried nearly 3.5 million riders at Philadelphia's 30th st last year not including the SEPTA Regional Rail and the many buses serving the station). the Keystone train is on pace to carry over a million riders this year despite the fact that it connects small cities with Philly and NYC. Are they not doing the "right" analysis or are people less anti-train than you are?

[Katarina Witt]

You misjudge me. I'm not anti-train, per se. I am just trying to play devil's advocate. If a bus to the train station from your house runs once an hour, you will have to take the bus that gets you to the place on time, which may mean leaving quite a bit sooner than you would if traveling there by car. It's because my family and I have used pubic transit that I know some of these issues. You do need to keep in mind that Pgh is considerably smaller than Philly, is that where you live? According to Wiki, Philadelphia's population is 5.8 million, 2 3/4 times Pgh's metro of 2.1 million. So there will be more service even at the same level of ridership in Philly. BTW, I live in metro Denver, which has excellent public transportation, but not so great train service (intercity).

[BrianTH]

Just to chime in again, Denver is going to be a stretch for intercity train travel--the distances to the nearest big destinations are just too far, and the mountains are a real issue.

But again with the understanding that pman and I are supporting different (although not mutually exclusive) proposals, Pittsburgh is actually within a reasonable high speed train distance of a lot of places, again potentially as far out as NYC to the east and Chicago to the west. By reasonable, I mean these trips would be around the same total length in time or shorter than taking airplanes. A high speed train would also beat car driving to Philly for many people, but it should be noted as well that train time is potentially productive time (as opposed to driving time).

Incidentally, I'd also agree that high speed train service works best when it links with good local transit. But Pittsburgh actually has a decent public transit infrastructure in place already (between the busways and T) and express routes could be added to specifically align with the train schedule.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Katiana

You misjudge me. I'm not anti-train, per se. I am just trying to play devil's advocate. If a bus to the train station from your house runs once an hour, you will have to take the bus that gets you to the place on time, which may mean leaving quite a bit sooner than you would if traveling there by car.

that's different. I use public transit as well, including buses, and I will acquiesce the point that pittsburgh's transit system may well be inadequate. I woudl think that if the station came into use again, it woudl be better served y transit than it is now. BTW, what is the Pitt transit company doing with the money the state found? SEPTA is actually expanding service here for the first time in years...and not just bus service although off peak bus service is receieving a substantial boost with some frequencies cut from a painful 40 min t 20 min headways. I suspect that the new late night service will solidify center city's role as leading night time entertainment "area."

Originally Posted by Katiana

You do need to keep in mind that Pgh is considerably smaller than Philly, is that where you live?

yep, just planning a trip to Pitt and potentially considering relocating depending on how that goes.

Originally Posted by Katiana

According to Wiki, Philadelphia's population is 5.8 million, 2 3/4 times Pgh's metro of 2.1 million. So there will be more service even at the same level of ridership in Philly.

absolutely.

Density5,636/sq mi (2,174/km²) Pittsburgh


Density10,882.8/sq mi (4,201.8/km²) Philadelphia

Philadelphia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Still, the transit system should be adequate for a large portion of people otherwise no one will use it. Bear i mind that Lancaster is part of the much smaller York-Harrsiburg-Lancaster MSA.

Brian-I spoke with someone "in the know" and he felt that the trip, with limited stops, coudl be as little as 4.5 hours even without electrification, tilting, and speeds of up to 110 mph. that's just with restored capacity. I'd bet that electrification and tilt could bring under 4 hours even with more stops.(although the main point of electrification would be to get off diesels).

[Katarina Witt]

It was not my intent to discuss any train travel to Denver. pman, you made a comment that made me think you thought I lived in Pittsburgh. I do not, but I am from there.

Brian-I spoke with someone "in the know" and he felt that the trip, with limited stops, coudl be as little as 4.5 hours even without electrification, tilting, and speeds of up to 110 mph. that's just with restored capacity. I'd bet that electrification and tilt could bring under 4 hours even with more stops.(although the main point of electrification would be to get off diesels).

Mapquest says you can drive from Pgh to Philly in 5 hr, 3 min. A 4.5 hr trip plus transport to/from the station would take longer. What would be the motivation to use it?

[Copanut]

When did this thread morph into trains? I grew up riding the rails as my grandfather was an engineer. Nothing better than taking a train ride from Greensburg back to central PA and seeing the Horseshoe Curve. I think there was at one time a commuter train from McKeesport to Pgh that was ended right around the time PAT was formed, competition?

I hadn't been on a train for years when I convinced my wife about 8 years ago to take a weekend trip from Pgh to Altoona to catch a few baseball games. Boy, have things changed. The train was delayed 3 hours on Friday, we missed that game. On the return trip we had to sit on a sidling for 1.5 hours so a freight train could pass us. Coach cars were unclean, service was lousy. Should have stayed home and preserved my good memories.

Here's a pop quiz: Why were the lavatories locked 3 miles from the station?

[pghcleak]

Yeah, for the time being, I think the state should focus more on local transportation issues rather than branching out. Pittsburgh really needs better public transportation. I wish they'd expand the T to the suburbs and into Oakland and some other heavily traveled neighborhoods.

And while we're at it, let's update our highways into this century.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Mapquest says you can drive from Pgh to Philly in 5 hr, 3 min. A 4.5 hr trip plus transport to/from the station would take longer. What would be the motivation to use it?

A few things. First, that driving time is based on some charitable assumptions--for example if you hit congestion anywhere (particularly likely on either end, but also in between during construction season), that drive time could be substantially longer. Second, the costs of driving could be higher than the costs of taking the train. Third, time on the train can be productive time. Fourth, generally trains are more pleasant than cars. Fifth, trains are also considerably safer than cars.

All that said, obviously the faster the train, the more competitive it will be with cars from the standpoint of convenience. On the other hand, faster trains will also be more costly. So, it is a complex balancing act.

[Copanut]

Per AMTRAK it takes 7h 30m to get from Pgh to Philly. You could always fly, but then you would have to visit that hellhole they call an airport.