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The only reason it is so controversial is because it means that Genesis cannot be literally true. I'll get over it. So will you. So will the fundamentalists.
Actually, everything we know about the "distribution of matter in the universe" supports the big bang theory. Likewise, everything we know about life on earth supports the theory of evolution.
Really? I saw a fascinating show on the Discovery Channel this past weekend (or maybe last week) showing how the matter was improperly distributed. There are clumps of galaxies...and that wouldn't happen in an explosion.
There is of course, also the discussion about what exists outside of the universe. Scientists speculate that the universe ends at the point where they cant' see any farther....but is that true?
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But it would be prudent for any science teacher to emphasize the fact that scientific theories are the best ways we have to explain scientific findings, but they are subject to be updated as new findings arise. One tiny fact could prove a scientific theory false, but current scientific theories such as the big bang theory and the theory of evolution are still current because no such fact has been found to disprove them.
Except for the question of what existed prior? Or "What caused it"?
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Until any scientific evidence for a creator is shown, any mention of a creator is a mention of religious beliefs. Clearly there will be some mention of religion at some point in social studies classes. But until there is scientific data to support intelligent design (literal creationism has no hope), it will not be taught in science class.
The universe itself is enough proof for the existence of a creator, or cause. Until you can show me differently, I'll stick with that.
I'm still waiting for you to post those facts that support creationism that you stated were in the Bible. Talk about devaluing an argument.
Now that is one telling comment. You know nothing of what you claim to be against, you could care to study the issue yet you think that some credibility is in order because your argument is based purely on religious zealotry. Perhaps if you actually studied even basic biology you would realize just how absurd your arguments would be.
Folks have all the time in the world to study creationism but when it comes expending such time and expense in a public school classroom when there is a vast amount of real science that students need to be concerned with, there just isn't enough time or money to waste on 6 century BCE myths of middle eastern goat herders,
I'm ignoring your first statement, as I have been. I honestly do not have the time right now in my life to do the research and pick apart the points you're making. It's not going to change my view either way, so I really don't care, and I'm obviously not going to change your point of view, so tell me, what is the point?
On your second statement, I will laugh at you, too. Just b/c I believe that God created everything doesn't mean I've never had a science class. In college, I took 3 biology classes and a chemistry class. I had my last bio class less than a year ago. I'll ask you just like I've asked everyone else who thinks they know my personal history to shove it.
Nobody said it had to be taught in science class, or even that a whole lecture had to be devoted to it. PAY ATTENTION!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why wait? What's the advantage to allowing the evil to grow and prosper to just "deal with it at a later time?"
We're in agreement here that it's socialization that plays the major part in moral behavior, not the threat of divine judgement.
1. Because spending eternity in hell (i.e., permanent separation from God) is the worst punishment one can receive. What goes around truly does eventually come around, although the sinners may have to wait until the afterlife. And Jesus will deal with it when He comes back for the true believers, and the rest of you will be left in the cold wondering why you never believed.
2. As someone who has been on both sides of the token, it actually is not socialization. I act 1000 times more moral than I did when I didn't believe in God or was another non-Christian religion. And that's b/c I'm God-fearing now, so yes, the threat of divine judgment is enough to scare a true believer straight.
And you never responded to the main portion of my response to you (on micro and macro evolution). Are we done there?
Yes. I have too much going on right now and my blood pressure is through the roof due to other things going on in my life right now. I'm not going to have time, energy or patience to get into a real discussion about it. Sorry.
The apostle, Peter, wrote it's because God is patient, and he's waiting for people to repent. I would guess he's holding off on judgment to give people a chance.
How many centuries of slavery was your god willing to accept? Quite a few by my count. Many human generations. No chance of this repentance for those millions condemned to lives of misery.
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I don't much care what it is. Of course a lot of this country's laws have their basis in Biblical commands.
I think it's because laws and religious scriptures are both based on the broader golden rule. Of course, each faith tries to claim it as their own.
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I agree that we're not subject to some middle-eastern sky-god that is angry.
We are, however, subject to the Creator of the Universe. Your attempt at a straw-man caricature is weak. Frankly, I find that more and more with you guys. You attempt to present straw-man arguments of what we believe in.
I've described your god as he is presented in your bible.
A very human-like character with very obvious flaws in character unbefitting a benevolent omnipotent deity.
1. Because spending eternity in hell (i.e., permanent separation from God) is the worst punishment one can receive. What goes around truly does eventually come around, although the sinners may have to wait until the afterlife. And Jesus will deal with it when He comes back for the true believers, and the rest of you will be left in the cold wondering why you never believed.
Ah, yes...
The inevitable appeal to fear.
Doesn't work with us infidels, though. Your god doesn't frighten us and your Christian hell is reserved for Christians.
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2. As someone who has been on both sides of the token, it actually is not socialization. I act 1000 times more moral than I did when I didn't believe in God or was another non-Christian religion. And that's b/c I'm God-fearing now, so yes, the threat of divine judgment is enough to scare a true believer straight.
Yep. Fear is a strong motivator. But we're not all frightened by your old middle east legends. Heck, I'm not even middle eastern.
Really? I saw a fascinating show on the Discovery Channel this past weekend (or maybe last week) showing how the matter was improperly distributed. There are clumps of galaxies...and that wouldn't happen in an explosion.
Perhaps my info is outdated on what the current theory says, but can you really safely rule out the big bang because of these clumps of galaxies? What is your reasoning as to why "that wouldn't happen in an explosion"?
Notice how facts are being used to discuss the theory, rather than dogma and emotion. I don't give a crap whether the big bang is true or not, as long as the current theory is based on facts.
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There is of course, also the discussion about what exists outside of the universe. Scientists speculate that the universe ends at the point where they cant' see any farther....but is that true?
I don't know. No one can say if speculation is true or not.
Also, I think to say what's "outside the universe" you have to define "universe". A common definition of "universe" is: everything that exists. By this definition, nothing exists outside the universe.
But we have no facts about anything but what we can observe, so all this talk about the edge of or outside the universe will remain speculation.
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Except for the question of what existed prior? Or "What caused it"?
The universe itself is enough proof for the existence of a creator, or cause. Until you can show me differently, I'll stick with that.
Define "Creator or cause". I might agree with you if you don't mean a conscious being, like a god. A conscious, intelligent creator of the universe is not proven nor is there even any bit of scientific evidence for it.
However, the reasoning behind saying that the universe had to have had a cause is the same reasoning to say that there's an infinite regression of causes. Using special pleading to excuse your god from requiring a cause can just as easily be done to excuse the universe itself from requiring a cause. So this line of reasoning does nothing for your argument.
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PAY ATTENTION!!!!!!!!!!!!
