To BE FREE or Not to be FREE? (drugs, health care, premium)

[cremebrulee]

I've just about had it with saturated fats and smoking

This is a free nation….or supposed to be….

This morning on Action News out of Philadelphia, mom and pop bakery owners are having to comply with using some syntho crisco, rather then the real thing, which will definitely have an effect on the taste of their products that they are well known for.

First, I'd like to know who has the monopoly on these issues…that win
Second, I'd like to say, it's becoming very annoying….

I agree that smokers should go outside to smoke. Even when I smoked I went outside, never smoked in my own home. But these issues are going way to far….and it's destroying our rights… There are people who do have serious breathing problems which smoke does effect...it's about compromise...not taking away rights....sheeesh

If you don't want to use saturated fats, that’s fine…but don't spoil it for everyone else who has a choice…

Gosh, what is it with people, is it b/c they can't control their own lives, so they want to control everyone elses.

Do as you wish, don't buy the stuff, but to demand it's done away with in everything is way to extreme and goes against our choices, our rights to have them

If someone is fat, that is their business…it's not perhaps what we as a society deem acceptable, but for God's sake, it's their choice.

I really wish these people who are energizing so much power into taking right away would really concentrate on a good cause, like getting criminals and sex offenders off the streets for good.

[yayoi]

I agree! It's really getting out of hand.

[GregW]

There are reformers and fanatics all over the political spectrum. I am a liberal democrat but I have no desire to protect people from their own foolishness. If people want to smoke - OK, just not around me. If they want to abuse alcohol - OK, just not where it will hurt me (DWI). If they want saturated fat - OK, I cook with saturated fat.

Liberalism is not nannyism.

[saganista]

I'd agree that sensible compromise is too infrequently used as a tool, but public health is a serious issue. If we do not make any progress at all in constraining public health care costs, we are going to be in some trouble. It may be that you don't have a right to eat artery-clogging doughnuts or smoke two packs of cigarettes a day, and then dump hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of life-support costs off onto the rest of us, either directly or by way of your health insurance coverage. That's a question that we'll have to answer. But the answer may be about the same as what it was to the question of whether or not you had a right to ride around in your car without wearing a seatbelt...

[lilypad]

I agree that we have the "right" to harm ourselves with drugs, smoking, drinking, high fat diet, obesity, etc. But--just a visionary thought: we as a society ALSO have to pay for these stupid people's mistakes down the road when their health deteriorates, diabetes, heart disease, lung/liver/kidney disease, sets in......We the people have to pay and pay and pay.

Personally, I do not want to be a burden on society like this, so attempt to live a health lifestyle and do plan to live long and prosper.

Maybe we can get these people their own state/country, so that THEY can pay for their OWN health care costs and not burden those of us who are responsible.

[bily4]

Originally Posted by lilypad

I agree that we have the "right" to harm ourselves with drugs, smoking, drinking, high fat diet, obesity, etc. But--just a visionary thought: we as a society ALSO have to pay for these stupid people's mistakes down the road when their health deteriorates, diabetes, heart disease, lung/liver/kidney disease, sets in......We the people have to pay and pay and pay.

Personally, I do not want to be a burden on society like this, so attempt to live a health lifestyle and do plan to live long and prosper.

Thank you! You may not care if people want to be fat, smoke, etc. - But you should care when your health insurance continues to skyrocket through the roof to cover their hospital care.

[cremebrulee]

Originally Posted by bily4

Thank you! You may not care if people want to be fat, smoke, etc. - But you should care when your health insurance continues to skyrocket through the roof to cover their hospital care.

This is not right....and again, something that health care wants you to believe....while they are wallowing in the fat of wealth....just my theory...

[katzenfreund]

Originally Posted by lilypad

I agree that we have the "right" to harm ourselves with drugs, smoking, drinking, high fat diet, obesity, etc. But--just a visionary thought: we as a society ALSO have to pay for these stupid people's mistakes down the road when their health deteriorates, diabetes, heart disease, lung/liver/kidney disease, sets in......We the people have to pay and pay and pay.

Personally, I do not want to be a burden on society like this, so attempt to live a health lifestyle and do plan to live long and prosper.

Maybe we can get these people their own state/country, so that THEY can pay for their OWN health care costs and not burden those of us who are responsible.

I agree 100% with that. I don't smoke, drink, am not overweight, eat a healthy diet and exercise. I am tired of paying with my extremely high insurance premiums for those that live on hamburges, hot dogs and soda...sit in front of the tv eating chips and donuts. Diabetes is rampant, obesity cost us billions in health care costs every year. My co-workers are both obese, when I hear just of all the prescription drugs they need, knee replacements, etc. etc. they both know they should lose weight and exercise but chose not too. In fact quite the opposite. Once in a while we will order out for a pizza. I'll choose the veggie pizza and remove most of the cheese, they will order the sausage/pepperoni pizza with EXTRA cheese... yet, both are meds because of their high cholesterol and both are diabetic.

[NewToCA]

I disagree with you Cremebrulee, I don't think smokers should have to go outside to smoke (I favor enclosed smoking areas in buildings), nor do I think cigarette or hard liquor advertising should be banned from TV. Nor do I think seat belt usage should be mandatory.

By the way, I don't view myself as conservative either. I think these issues are a personal decision. I think making information available, such as food establishments marketing that they use healthy ingredients is fine, but to mandate it is wrong.

By the way, to show how extreme my view is, I don't support MADD though I do favor a hard crackdown on drunk driving, and making vehicles impossible to start if you are impared (I know others can do it for you, but that appears reasonable to me).

[macmeal]

(Lilypad beat me to this)...Briefly, somehow over the past ferw decades we as a society have decided to become more caring and supportive of everyone. A "kinder, gentler" society, if you will. Any act by the government to "look after" us comes with a corresponding cost; in dollars, in freedom, or in self-determination.
Just one example would be mandatory helmets for motorcyclists. In a wide-open "old west" society, we'd just allow any biker to crash, if he insisted, and if he became disabled, he'd just have to live with that.
We don't want paralyzed, disabled bikers lying around and begging for change on our public sidewalks. So we've agreed to provide medical care if needed, often at enormous cost over his entire lifetime. It then becomes our "right" as his benefactors, to demand that he wear a helmet to lower "our" financial risk.
Sounds a bit cold-hearted but I think you'll find this reasoning to be part of any legislation designed to help us despite ourselves. Annoying in theory, it suddenly becomes a very good idea if we or a loved one needs its benefits.....