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Old 07-18-2017, 12:40 AM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,452,870 times
Reputation: 14266

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Mark my words: whatever they pass - and they will eventually pass something - will inevitably (1) reduce the number of insured, and (2) bolster insurers' ability to screw greater segments of people with useless insurance.

And there is a very simple reason for this: conservatives belief in fundamentally in small government, deregulation, free markets, and every man for himself.

That works well for many markets, but it does not work well for healthcare. Show me the first-world nations who deliver high-quality, affordable results with full national coverage in fully private / deregulated markets. Healthcare is unlike other markets.. tremendous information asymmetries, lack of ability to shop around, high levels of subsidization of healthy required to offset the sick, the fundamental criticality to survival of the market participants, the elevated costs if you treat in emergency rooms... Market dynamics can and should be used in many aspects of the system, but this is one market that requires a decent degree of government intervention to work.

You need the nation all-in participating in the system. You need the healthy to subsidize the sick.

When you turn to a typical conservative "solution", all you will ever get is tens of millions uninsured, people getting ripped off by insurers, personal bankruptcies caused by healthcare emergencies, and people at the mercy of their employers not downsizing them in order to keep what insurance they have.

That is all conservatives ever have had or ever will have to offer us on healthcare. And that is what they will give America in whatever they pass. If they were capable of something different and better, they would have to betray their core beliefs as conservatives.
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Old 07-18-2017, 01:26 AM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
11,122 posts, read 5,593,114 times
Reputation: 16596
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
Mark my words: whatever they pass - and they will eventually pass something - will inevitably (1) reduce the number of insured, and (2) bolster insurers' ability to screw greater segments of people with useless insurance.

And there is a very simple reason for this: conservatives belief in fundamentally in small government, deregulation, free markets, and every man for himself.

That works well for many markets, but it does not work well for healthcare. Show me the first-world nations who deliver high-quality, affordable results with full national coverage in fully private / deregulated markets. Healthcare is unlike other markets.. tremendous information asymmetries, lack of ability to shop around, high levels of subsidization of healthy required to offset the sick, the fundamental criticality to survival of the market participants, the elevated costs if you treat in emergency rooms... Market dynamics can and should be used in many aspects of the system, but this is one market that requires a decent degree of government intervention to work.

You need the nation all-in participating in the system. You need the healthy to subsidize the sick.

When you turn to a typical conservative "solution", all you will ever get is tens of millions uninsured, people getting ripped off by insurers, personal bankruptcies caused by healthcare emergencies, and people at the mercy of their employers not downsizing them in order to keep what insurance they have.

That is all conservatives ever have had or ever will have to offer us on healthcare. And that is what they will give America in whatever they pass. If they were capable of something different and better, they would have to betray their core beliefs as conservatives.

Maybe the fear of defeat at the next election will motivate some of them?
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Old 07-18-2017, 01:42 AM
 
5,717 posts, read 3,147,283 times
Reputation: 7374
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
You need the healthy to subsidize the sick.
Sorry, but I wasn't born into indentured servitude to "the sick".
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Old 07-18-2017, 01:55 AM
 
Location: West Texas
2,366 posts, read 1,647,517 times
Reputation: 2561
Quote:
Conservatives will not come up with a better healthcare replacement - not now, not ever
Yes, because the Affordable Care Act was so great, lol. You do realize that Obamacare is failing?

Quote:
The Great Obamacare Lie

The American people deserve an apology for being sold a bill of goods on the Affordable Care Act.
https://www.usnews.com/opinion/thoma...bamas-promises
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...it_132214.html

There's a lot more. If Obamacare was so great, we wouldn't be trying to replace it, now would we.
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Old 07-18-2017, 02:09 AM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
11,122 posts, read 5,593,114 times
Reputation: 16596
Quote:
Originally Posted by neko_mimi View Post
Sorry, but I wasn't born into indentured servitude to "the sick".

You don't seem to know, that part of being human, is caring for one another. There have been times, in the last million years or so, when natural disasters reduced our ancestors' population down, to just a few thousand individuals at times and perhaps once, to only about 35 to 40 people. If they hadn't all stuck together and fully supported each and every one of their little band, we wouldn't be here today.
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Old 07-18-2017, 02:46 AM
 
34,058 posts, read 17,081,326 times
Reputation: 17213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McDonald View Post
You don't seem to know, that part of being human, is caring for one another. .
We've always had charities. They provide "care".

Gov't role is not to "care".
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Old 07-18-2017, 03:16 AM
 
8,924 posts, read 5,629,144 times
Reputation: 12560
Republicans don't care about your healthcare. They just want to repeal now. As much money that this country has I still can't believe we can't do better than the ACA. Republicans had over 7 years to get something better lined up. Instead, they keep trying to make the ACA worse. This is a sign of what's to come with the new tax bill. Don't be surprised at what the Republicans have in store for us there also.
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Old 07-18-2017, 03:34 AM
 
Location: SE Asia
16,236 posts, read 5,882,675 times
Reputation: 9117
Obviously neither will the Democrats because with a super majority they forced the Unaffordable Care Act on us and really screwed things up.
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Old 07-18-2017, 04:00 AM
 
34,300 posts, read 15,656,546 times
Reputation: 13053
Wake up people you are being scammed.

We are never going to get good health care because both parties are in the pocket of big business health company's. Obamacare is failing and what replaces it will fail too. Its the Healthcare Industrial Complex. The big three : 1) Pharma, 2) Hospitals, 3) Insurance

Its all beside the point when the grandstanding politicians don't actually do anything about the cost. Hospitals charge outrageous amounts for things like gauze pads and Band-Aids and none of it is based on cost. Example : $ 70.00 for gauze pads you can buy on the internet, with free shipping, for $ 15.00. Multimillion dollar packages for Healthcare Hospital Administrator's and kickbacks...........


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLFK0624pIw



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL3AL98J8eM
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Old 07-18-2017, 04:03 AM
 
Location: A State of Mind
6,611 posts, read 3,675,165 times
Reputation: 6388
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
Mark my words: whatever they pass - and they will eventually pass something - will inevitably (1) reduce the number of insured, and (2) bolster insurers' ability to screw greater segments of people with useless insurance.

And there is a very simple reason for this: conservatives belief in fundamentally in small government, deregulation, free markets, and every man for himself.

That works well for many markets, but it does not work well for healthcare. Show me the first-world nations who deliver high-quality, affordable results with full national coverage in fully private / deregulated markets. Healthcare is unlike other markets.. tremendous information asymmetries, lack of ability to shop around, high levels of subsidization of healthy required to offset the sick, the fundamental criticality to survival of the market participants, the elevated costs if you treat in emergency rooms... Market dynamics can and should be used in many aspects of the system, but this is one market that requires a decent degree of government intervention to work.

You need the nation all-in participating in the system. You need the healthy to subsidize the sick.

When you turn to a typical conservative "solution", all you will ever get is tens of millions uninsured, people getting ripped off by insurers, personal bankruptcies caused by healthcare emergencies, and people at the mercy of their employers not downsizing them in order to keep what insurance they have.

That is all conservatives ever have had or ever will have to offer us on healthcare. And that is what they will give America in whatever they pass. If they were capable of something different and better, they would have to betray their core beliefs as conservatives.
Yep, and some voters don't seem to see that. Healthcare has been an issue for years, with those in the past trying to get it appropriately and fairly resolved, having to get many to come to agreements. There were all the complaints over the A C A, but it is been difficult to come to a perfect solution. (Now we see it is looking pretty good to many). With it having been about $$ and some in office being ones who prefer to control spending no matter what.. well, we see what happens.

What some don't realize, is that there are politicians who really do want to make things better for ALL, but if they are prevented in doing so by Conservatives who are focused upon $$, it is not their fault if they do not have the support to affect change. There are those who are truly there "for the people", but some voters get swayed by those who lure them into believing they will do something they never will. The very ones who will help overall, are those who some are resistant in supporting.
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