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After having spent a good deal of time composing what I think are some pretty good posts and reading the responses, I have come to the realization that few people here are actually interested in discussing anything.
Instead of engaging in a meaningful exchange of information and ideas, nearly everyone posting seems to be simply shouting out hyperbolic talking points "drive by" style.
If someone expresses concern over the negative ramifications of illegal immigration, he is met with a slew of hyperbolic drive by comments calling him a racist and xenophobe. Can we honestly not discuss the burden illegal immigration places on us and the need to approach the issue in a rational and compassionate way? It is after all, a complex issue.
Likewise, mention anything good about America and you will receive another hail storm of exaggerated anti-US rhetoric that could easily have been posted by Ahmedinijad. Do people really think it is reasonable or constructive to speak of corporations such as Walmart as if they are so evil they surpass the horrors of Auschwitz? Do people really believe that "the rich" are a bunch of quasi-Nazis who take pleasure in forcing other people to live in squaller? Do people really believe that the lives of people living in squaller would miraculously reach a Utopian ideal if only the rich quasi-Nazis could be stopped?
Really, read some of the comments in this forum and ask yourself what is the point and what constructive purpose they serve. Are they well thought exchanges of substance filled information, or are they simply people shouting out hyperbolic talking points?
I often wonder why people even post and whether or not they really believe what they are posting or if they are just trying to win a verbal food fight.
Because people here aren't here to change their minds, they are here to change your minds... even so, hyperbole is a form of discourse... it is easier to attack then to defend an ideology...
It is the nature of internet 'conversation'. In a forum such as this you are missing all of the elements of a normal conversation - facial expressions, tone of voice, hand gesticulations, etc. In the absence of those elements, I think to get a point across some posters will tend to exaggerate the wording of their statements.
I sympathize with you. If you're looking for an intelligent, rational discussion, you're probably going to be frustrated.
Keep in mind that registering on this site is very easy to do, and half the population has an IQ that is below average. Whatever you post, you're going to have to deal with responses that are off-topic, rude, condescending, inflammatory, and generally a waste of your time. If you can deal with those things - and maybe even perversely enjoy them from time to time - you'll do fine. If not, you may be better off looking elsewhere for discussions about politics.
After having spent a good deal of time composing what I think are some pretty good posts and reading the responses, I have come to the realization that few people here are actually interested in discussing anything.
Good deal. Break it down for us! Who, what, when?
Quote:
Originally Posted by edub
Instead of engaging in a meaningful exchange of information and ideas, nearly everyone posting seems to be simply shouting out hyperbolic talking points "drive by" style.
Who: Everyone.
What: Drive-by Talking Points.
When: All the time.
You paint with a very broad brush. Let's see if you can back it up, or if it's a giant straw-man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edub
If someone expresses concern over the negative ramifications of illegal immigration, he is met with a slew of hyperbolic drive by comments calling him a racist and xenophobe. Can we honestly not discuss the burden illegal immigration places on us and the need to approach the issue in a rational and compassionate way? It is after all, a complex issue.
I believe all angles have been covered. If you send me twenty bucks through pay-pal, I will personally use the forum Search function and come back with at least twenty posts that honestly discuss the burden illegal immigration places on us, and the need to approach the issue in a rational and compassionate way. Or, for free, you could do the search yourself. Choice is yours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edub
Likewise, mention anything good about America and you will receive another hail storm of exaggerated anti-US rhetoric that could easily have been posted by Ahmedinijad.
Specific threads you have a problem with? Claiming posters could have easily been Ahmadinejad... Who in particular? Giant blanket straw-man with no bearing on reality, perhaps?
Quote:
Originally Posted by edub
Do people really think it is reasonable or constructive to speak of corporations such as Walmart as if they are so evil they surpass the horrors of Auschwitz?
Do they? Do you have particular individuals you would like to accuse?
Quote:
Originally Posted by edub
Do people really believe that "the rich" are a bunch of quasi-Nazis who take pleasure in forcing other people to live in squaller(sic)?
I have yet to see a post to that particular effect, but then I cannot read the whole forum. Perhaps you have a link, and would like to rebut that particular poster?
Quote:
Originally Posted by edub
Do people really believe that the lives of people living in squaller(sic) would miraculously reach a Utopian ideal if only the rich quasi-Nazis could be stopped?
Again, you are asking the sky if there are people like you describe. What on earth do you expect the forum to do, answer yes? I suppose it's possible, but you'll have to find an instance of such a position, and refute it. Otherwise it's called a STRAW-MAN, and it doesn't exist!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by edub
Really, read some of the comments in this forum and ask yourself what is the point and what constructive purpose they serve. Are they well thought exchanges of substance filled information, or are they simply people shouting out hyperbolic talking points?
Um. It's a forum, not exactly a gathering of the minds. There are all kinds of people on here, and their opinions vary widely. One cannot be tasked with defending the whole forum, although you seem to want us to do that. What point are YOU trying to make, with your straw-man thread?
Quote:
Originally Posted by edub
I often wonder why people even post and whether or not they really believe what they are posting or if they are just trying to win a verbal food fight.
Fair enough. You could have saved us the trouble of taking you seriously, and just posted this. What you are doing is called "Musing." It starts with "I wonder..." and continues from there. Other posters would have a tough time arguing with your personal musings. But you're free to post them.
But why the army of straw-men before your musings? Just cut to the chase.
Fair enough. Break it down for us. Who, what, when?
Who: Everyone.
What: Drive-by Talking Points.
When: All the time.
You paint with a very broad brush. Let's see if you can back it up, or if it's a giant straw-man.
I believe all angles have been covered. If you send me twenty bucks through pay-pal, I will personally use the forum Search function and come back with at least twenty posts that honestly discuss the burden illegal immigration places on us, and the need to approach the issue in a rational and compassionate way. Or, for free, you could do the search yourself. Choice is yours.
Specific threads you have a problem with? Claiming posters could have easily been Ahmadinejad... Who in particular? Giant blanket straw-man with no bearing on reality, perhaps?
Do they? Do you have particular individuals you would like to accuse?
I have yet to see a post to that particular effect, but then I cannot read the whole forum. Perhaps you have a link, and would like to rebut that particular poster?
Again, you are asking the sky if there are people like you describe. What on earth do you expect the forum to do, answer yes? I suppose it's possible, but you'll have to find an instance of such a position, and refute it. Otherwise it's called a STRAW-MAN, and it doesn't exist!!!!
Um. It's a forum, not exactly a gathering of the minds. There are all kinds of people on here, and their opinions vary widely. One cannot be tasked with defending the whole forum, although you seem to want us to do that. What point are YOU trying to make, with your straw-man thread?
Fair enough. You could have saved us the trouble of taking you seriously, and just posted this. What you are doing is called "Musing." It starts with "I wonder..." and continues from there. Other posters would have a tough time arguing with your personal musings. But you're free to post them.
But why the army of straw-men before your musings? Just cut to the chase.
I rest my case.
BTW, below is a link for the definition of a "straw man" argument. If you are going to use the term repeatedly, you ought to know what it actually means.
BTW, below is a link for the definition of a "straw man" argument. If you are going to use the term repeatedly, you ought to know what it actually means.
I used it correctly. Your whole post is either one giant straw-man, misinterpreting EVERYONE'S position, or a series of them. Go ahead and redefine yourself out of attacking people who do not exist
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 09-19-2010 at 08:48 PM..
Reason: Copyright violation
Was my post really so difficult for you to understand that you need names and examples? Just read any post in the forum and you will see exactly what I'm talking about. Your whole response is one epic fail.
Was my post really so difficult for you to understand that you need names and examples? Just read any post in the forum and you will see exactly what I'm talking about. Your whole response is one epic fail.
Negative, buddy. You are attacking the whole forum, and asking things like "Do people really believe that "the rich" are a bunch of quasi-Nazis who take pleasure in forcing other people to live in squaller?" That is NOT a reasonable question to ask the whole forum. Is it? Who would defend it? The beginning of your post came across like a scolding, and what should have followed was a series of reasons why proper debate is structured in a certain way. Instead, you went off on a tangent about quasi-Nazis, and expected us to respond. So I responded: Who are you talking about? You never answered. Oh, wait. You told me to read "Any thread on the forum." Really? I'll find hyperbole about quasi-nazis in any thread?
Absurd. And YES your post WAS a straw-man post, google straw-man again. You set up an imaginary being that is easy for you to attack ("people who think the rich are quasi-nazis") and then you act like you have made some type of compelling point. Who are the quasi-nazi believers? You have posted ONE link so far, and after searching for the word "Nazi" I came up with zero instances. Try again?
YOUR thread is one big fail, and you will not admit that you had no idea what a straw-man was until you read the OP again and realized it was attacking imaginary people. Sorry edub, why don't you just let the thread drop to the next page and we'll forget you ever launched an immature attack on, quote, "Nearly Everyone."
Negative, buddy. You are attacking the whole forum, and asking things like "Do people really believe that "the rich" are a bunch of quasi-Nazis who take pleasure in forcing other people to live in squaller?" That is NOT a reasonable question to ask the whole forum, is it? The beginning of your post came across like a scolding, and what should have followed was a series of reasons why proper debate is structured in a certain way. Instead, you went off on a tangent about quasi-Nazis, and expected us to respond. So I responded: Who are you talking about? You never answered. Oh, wait. You told me to read "Any thread on the forum." Really? I'll find hyperbole about quasi-nazis in any thread?
Absurd. And YES your post WAS a straw-man post, google straw-man again. You set up an imaginary being that is easy for you to attack (people who think the rich are quasi-nazis) and then you act like you have made some type of compelling point. Who are the quasi-nazi believers? You have posted ONE link so far, and after searching for the word "Nazi" I came up with zero instances. Try again?
YOUR thread is one big fail, and you will not admit that you had no idea what a straw-man was until you read the OP again and realized it was attacking imaginary people. Sorry edub, why don't you just let the thread drop to the next page and we'll forget you ever launched an immature attack on, quote, "Nearly Everyone."
Got rabies or just trying to prove the OP's point thoroughly? Wow, some serious anger going on in those responses indeed.
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Must everything be Straw-Men??
