is the birther movement dead ? (France, Barack Obama, independence, military)

[HistorianDude]

Originally Posted by ergohead

Native!

Native born U.S. citizen.

Native and natural born are perfectly synonymous.

[InformedConsent]

Originally Posted by HistorianDude

And his natural born US citizen status was obtained by his birth on US soil.

A foreigner is not a natural born American citizen, as evidenced by Jay's letter to Washington, the president of the Constitutional Convention.

I have solid historical evidence. You have nothing more than your opinion that you think it means something else, along with playing silly avoidance semantics games with a word whose definition is well-known. As such, we're at an impasse: my facts vs. your opinions.

I have to say though that for one who's seemingly interested in history, you're awfully quick to let your own bias color the actual known historical facts.

[HistorianDude]

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

A foreigner is not a natural born American citizen, as evidenced by Jay's letter to Washington, the president of the Constitutional Convention.

No. A foreigner is not a US citizen at all, let alone a natural born one.

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

I have solid historical evidence.

And I have 500 years of Anglo-American common law and the only definition of natural born citizen that existed in the English language at the time the Constitution was framed.

[InformedConsent]

Originally Posted by HistorianDude

Not if they are a US citizen.

What precludes a US citizen from also being a foreigner? Nothing. Even the US State Department acknowledges that. They warn that the US Government will not be able to intervene on behalf of a US citizen who is also foreign citizen.

[InformedConsent]

Originally Posted by HistorianDude

No. A foreigner is not a US citizen at all, let alone a natural born one.

There is no basis for that assumption.

[ergohead]

Originally Posted by HistorianDude

Native and natural born are perfectly synonymous.

Yeah, if words don't have meaning.

(See "Jared Lee Loughner)

[HistorianDude]

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

What precludes a US citizen from also being a foreigner?

The very fact that they are US citizens precludes them from being a foreigner. They are mutually exclusive concepts.

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

Even the US State Department acknowledges that.

This is a lie. No State Department regulation, guidance or document asserts that a dual citizen of the US is a foreigner.

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

They warn that the US Government will not be able to intervene on behalf of a US citizen who is also foreign citizen.

This is true.

But they never said such a person is a foreigner.

[HistorianDude]

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

There is no basis for that assumption.

I assumed nothing.

[HistorianDude]

Originally Posted by ergohead

Yeah, if words don't have meaning.

Here's a word with a meaning for you:

syn·on·y·mous

1 : having the character of a synonym; also : alike in meaning or significance

2 : having the same connotations, implications, or reference

Synonymous - Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

[swbtoo]

The US Government cautions it may not be able to intervene *as effectively* on behalf of a US citizen who holds dual citizenship; however they *will* intervene and try to do what they can.