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The majority of the religious right defends their right to keep prayer in schools and businesses. Because the seperation of chruch and state only goes so far,
Separation of church and state is a phrase that appears nowhere in the US Constitution.
In the US Constitution, the treatment of religion by the government is broken into two clauses: the establishment clause and the free exercise clause.
The establishment clause says Congress can't make any law establishing a state religion. In other words, there can't be a Church of the United States.
The free exercise clause says Congress can't make a law prohibiting you from practicing your religion.
I think people get hung up on the word "marriage." If that word itself has such strong spiritual/religious overtones for people, and means such different things, then take it out of the legal institution of what we call marriage now, and call that legally binding contract something else--that's what marriage now is in the eyes of the government--a contract. I could care less if you call it a domestic partnership--just make EVERYONE get one who wants the current legal protections of marriage, whether they're gay or straight. Then you could reserve actual "marriage" as a private, religious ceremony based on your own personal faith, or lack of faith. Problem solved.
So...my solution--everyone, gay or straight--signs a contract at the court house to form a legal partnership with another person that gives them all the rights we give to married couples now. I could care less what you call it. THEN, if you choose, you can have a ceremony at a church/faith group of your choosing, or just before friends, to declare yourself married. It takes the government out of the religious/spiritual aspects of the process (where they don't belong under separation of church and state), and lets everybody do their own thing. If your church doesn't want to marry gay people (or people with buck teeth for that matter) they wouldn't have to. There are lots of others, however, who will. "Marriage" ceremonies wouldn't give any more legal rights--it would simply be a separate ceremony according to your personal beliefs that declares your intention to spend your life with someone. Kind of like a renewal of vows work now. You already have a legally binding relationship, but you choose affirm it publicly (and in this case call it marriage) before a witnessing group of your choice.
The logic of some of you is that separation of church and state only covers a prohibition on creating a state religion, and freedom to practice your own faith. You're essentially creating a state religion by denying basic rights to others based on your own religious views--you're making the state the enforcer of your faith. Since when is the right to form a legal contract for the care of children, division of property, etc. a PRIVILEGE vs a RIGHT? So...(Luke 20:25) “Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”
One last comment. I'm a devout Christian and a regular church goer. I've been a Sunday School teacher for 15 years, and my husband is on our church board. My church denomination DOES NOT have a problem with gay marriage. This isn't a "Christian" thing--it's an issue about your own personal faith viewpoint. I want the freedom to practice my faith, just as you want the freedom to practice yours.
Why do you ask why....
Why is it that 70% of the population can't stop a Muslim Mosque from being
built at Ground Zero, but one Atheist can get crosses removed from a
soldier's grave?
I am dealing with it, and so are the growing number of Americans who say that same-sex relationships are acceptable.
Regardless, the point is that same-sex marriage will become legal in more places as time goes on, so I'm not too worried. Opponents of same-sex marriage, on the other hand, have a lot to worry about.
Sorry, same sex marriage has been turned by very large numbers in just about every state it has been up for vote. Even very liberal states.
I think what fails is the supposed high and mighty "morality" that the right wing, conservative claims to have. How "moral" is it to deny humans rights simply because an opposing group finds it "wrong".
How is that?
What if 53 percent of Americans decided that left handers should not have the same rights as right handers. because 53 percent (obviously all right handed) people vote agaist it, does that mean it is OK to deny rights?
Please explain.
Please explain why you blame the right for denying gay marraige?
Like I said, gay marriage initiatives have been voted on 35 times in this country. Everyone one of them has failed. Every one. In such places as Califirnia, Orgon and Maine. Hardly right wing areas. Thsose votes weren't even close. They were landslides.
Only way gay marriage has been approved is through judges or state legislators.
When liberals get a chance to cast a secret ballot they vote no. At least conservatives are honest about their beliefs. They don't say they want gay marraige in public only to vote no in secret like the hypocrites on the left.
You thread is nothing more than an attempt to bash conservatives. Maybe you should look to people on the left for this issue. They are clearly the bigots and hypocrites.
the official white house position is that marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman.
Bill Clinton passed the defense of marriage act (1 man & 1 woman)
the dems don't like to bring this up because they want to appear to be the gay friendly party.
Lets face it... the only true gay friendly (as defined by gays) organizations are gays themselves.
"Gay rights" is just a bunch of BS. Special rights for people who have a sexual perversion?
Sorry, same sex marriage has been turned by very large numbers in just about every state it has been up for vote. Even very liberal states.
Exactly! Marriage is religious, a union that is held in the eyes of God. It's been bastardized by modern society which has chipped away at the meaning of it. People who hold religious beliefs (Jews, Christians, Muslims (95% of the world)) on both sides, left and right, understand that to call a same sex union "marriage" goes agaisnt those beliefs.
This is why pro-gay activists have to remove religion from anything and everything. It's those pesky God believing wackos that keep them from getting everything they want.
Exactly! Marriage is religious, a union that is held in the eyes of God. It's been bastardized by modern society which has chipped away at the meaning of it. People who hold religious beliefs (Jews, Christians, Muslims (95% of the world)) on both sides, left and right, understand that to call a same sex union "marriage" goes agaisnt those beliefs.
This is why pro-gay activists have to remove religion from anything and everything. It's those pesky God believing wackos that keep them from getting everything they want.
gays don't even know what they want
they want to be accepted for being different
they team up with other "minority" groups (blacks, trans gendered, etc.)
to protest against the establishment that people don't accept them.
but, if everyone accepted them as they are then they would be in the norm which would be contradictory to the entire gay lifestyle.
gays don't even know what they want
they want to be accepted for being different
they team up with other "minority" groups (blacks, trans gendered, etc.)
to protest against the establishment that people don't accept them.
but, if everyone accepted them as they are then they would be in the norm which would be contradictory to the entire gay lifestyle.
they are attention whores
Agreed. Let's not forget that most Gays really don't give a crap about marriage itself, especially the religious meaning of the ceremony, because a union does serve the same purpose.
We are gathered here in the eyes of God? I don't think so.
It's primarilly insurance, health benefits and spousal remunerations that are the real targets here. I'm sure Gays would like to marry a sugar daddy and if the union (marriage, cough) doesn't work out, sue for divorce and take them to the cleaners just like heterosexuals can.
Fair enough. But I don't believe wanting marriage to remain between one man and one woman as strictly based on biblical morality. Frankly I think it's common sense.
Why?
If we go back in time and look at marriage, it generally happened in the upperclass (royalty and other lesser beings) and as a way to ensure that land and cash would be handed down to legitimate offspring. It was also used as a way to forge alliances. That was the whole concept.
And as it stands in the US, currently, if you have children there are actually two divorces in one. One over custody and one over property. By and large, the courts don't care of he said/she said. It is merely a division of accumulated property. And unless there is a real problem with custody issues(abuse or tit for tat crap) then its pretty cut and dry.
So, if we go back to as recent as the 1930's people get married because it was what you did, not out of love. Not but a minute later, we have the introduction of the Kodak Kid. Kids are no longer work mules and have cumpulsory school so that they aren't stealing jobs from the men. We still have problems that effect children based on those old concepts and the way this is shoved down their throats starting very young. Consider that depression hits girls now at the age of 11 trying to fit into this concept. And it has, for the past 10 years, nailed our boys. Gender is very strictly defined-still.
We have LGBT kids that don't fit. They encounter problems at home, at school, there is a tendency to drop out and they face a high rate of addiction. There is a higher rate of suicide. Hell, we have 11 year olds that are committing suicide after being "accused" of being gay, and they don't even have their heads wrapped around sex.............they completely get that "gay is bad". I think the youngest one that has occured was at the age of 10 and happened in the UK. The Day of Silence has, locally, met with such backlash that we have grown adults that feel that they have a "right" to tell an LGBT student that they are wrong. One of my kids, gets jumped on a daily basis, yet the SCHOOL has decided that he is the only one to be charged with battery. What is that message? I have two others that have dropped out completely because it is too much. They don't want to go to jail, so they don't go to school. This is HUGE.
Considering the devestating impact that this has emotionally, psychologically, and spiritually (and financially) it makes sense to just say.........I'm against against homosexuals marrying, so...........I won't marry a homosexual. I'm against gay sex......so I won't have it. Economically speaking, it makes sense to say........I want you to be a productive member of society and I want your abilities to be known first and your sexual identity to be second unless, you choose to make it so. I want you to do this so I, as a taxpayer, do not have to pay for your therapy or your time in jail or your court costs. Further, with all the same rights, including marriage, you provide a stable home and can adopt...........the kids that nobody else is adopting. And you purchase, as consumers, as a "family".
Win, win, win......nobody loses here except that biblical morality.
LBGT are not just asking for rights......they are telling you that they can handle the responsibility that comes with those rights. It just makes sense.
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And I also don't think that defending the institution of marriage is being discriminatory against homosexuals. No one is trying to stop homosexuals from being with the person of their choice.
And I do think a civil union is the answer to that.
Defending or legislating?
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