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Old 11-30-2010, 11:17 AM
 
16,545 posts, read 13,455,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
It is fundamentally the same thing. You are mistaking form for substance.
It's NOT the same thing.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:18 AM
 
14,247 posts, read 17,924,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
It's NOT the same thing.
Oh YES it is
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Old 11-30-2010, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,104 posts, read 5,991,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
If the Eurpoeans wanted to do what America did, there wouldn't be seperate countries. If you have seperate countries you need seperate economies and currency. That's the only way it works. If you can't see how this is turning into a bad idea, I have some waterfront property in Kansas to sell you.


Europe is at the state we Americans were at in 1783 where the First United States of America was a confederation or weak union and it was such a failure that it was replaced with a new federation with a much stronger federal government. One arguement at the center of American politics is over the strength of this federal government, the power of the states and local governments that make up the American Union and where to draw the line. This arguement nearly destroyed the USA in the 1860s and still reverberates today. In a sense we Americans are still fighting our civil war but hopefully we learned not to use lethal force. We don't need another Manassas, Antietem or Gettysburg.
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Old 11-30-2010, 10:37 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,634,918 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwruckman View Post
Europe is at the state we Americans were at in 1783 where the First United States of America was a confederation or weak union and it was such a failure that it was replaced with a new federation with a much stronger federal government. One arguement at the center of American politics is over the strength of this federal government, the power of the states and local governments that make up the American Union and where to draw the line. This arguement nearly destroyed the USA in the 1860s and still reverberates today. In a sense we Americans are still fighting our civil war but hopefully we learned not to use lethal force. We don't need another Manassas, Antietem or Gettysburg.


Are you waiting for States to throw the federal government out of their state, again???

You think it can't happen today?

Why?

Remember Ft. Sumter?
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,640,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
The only Europeans happy with the Euro are the ones who got brought UP by adopting it. What about the countries who had to come DOWN? I'm sure they aren't too happy with it.
Well, I can say that some Nordic countries have no regrets whatsoever, and I don't see much anti-EU sentiment elsewhere either. There will always be vocal groups who will oppose everything under the sun, but there is no widespread anti-EU sentiment within the EU.
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:41 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,873,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
What will happen is that the strong countries will simply take control of the weaker country's economies.
Europeans just LOVE imperialism...in whatever form is must take.
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,104 posts, read 5,991,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Are you waiting for States to throw the federal government out of their state, again???

You think it can't happen today?

Why?

Remember Ft. Sumter?

Shelby Foote, a great student of the Civil War noted that one consequence of that war was to change the United States of America from an "are" to an "is" in the minds of its citizens. Before the Civil War the plural from was used because peoiple still thought of the USA as a group of states that happened to freely associated whereas after the war it was a single nation hence the less grammatical singular "is". Before the Civil War the vast majority of Americans never set foot out of the state they were born and had no personal experience of living in any other state. Today I have lived in Missouri (born in Rolla), Oregon, Pennsylvania, New York, Minnesota and Maryland. The only states I have not set foot in are Alaska, Hawaii and Oklahoma. I can travel from one coast to the other in about 6 hours. I do my shopping at stores managed out of North Carolina, Arkansas, Minnesota and Georgia. Some of my electric power comes from Ohio, Tennesse and Virgina. The railroad that runs through my town is controlled from Jacksonville Florida. Modern technology was built a web of connections between all 300 million Americans and is spinning a web that will as throughly bind us to this worlds 7 billion people in lands I'll never set foot in. Unlike most Americans at the time of the Civil War todays today Americans can't make the food, generate the energy or make any one of the thousands of products needed for survival. So a civil war and the loss of food, electric power, water, etc, etc. would be lethal for this nation and why I would think it an act of madness. Yes, I remember Ft Sumter and note that the same Union Officer a Major Anderson had the honor of raising the Stars and Stripes (The same Flag actually) over that Fort when the Union regained the Fort and control of Charleston in the waning days of that conflict.
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Leadville, CO
1,027 posts, read 1,971,660 times
Reputation: 1406
Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
The guy is 100% right. You can't merge economies and put every country on the same currency. It is a complete failure and we are seeing why today. With this strategy, someone will ALWAYS have to be put into the poor house for someone else to rise up. It is a sham and a power grab to make the citizens slaves to the elites.
You seem to not know how similar Europe's individual economies are. Hello? Much of the EU is an open-border zone. It works just fine.
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,755,547 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
You have the same issue in the US. There are states like California which are in severe fiscal crisis too. Are you suggesting getting rid of the dollar so that they can have their own currency and enjoy the benefits of devaluation?

Slightly different. They are all different cultures, different languages, different economic situations. Not to mention their union is about 10 minutes old ours is over 200 years old.
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:09 PM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,303,308 times
Reputation: 3122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
You have the same issue in the US. There are states like California which are in severe fiscal crisis too. Are you suggesting getting rid of the dollar so that they can have their own currency and enjoy the benefits of devaluation?
California is not a distinct and separate country. It's not a valid comparision when discussing the issues related to the countries in the European Union.
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